09-19-2010, 02:20 PM | #61 |
Curmudgeon
Posts: 3,085
Karma: 722357
Join Date: Feb 2010
Device: PRS-505
|
Will being male/female/other, etc., matter less if we make it matter more?
Is it going to help if we say "it's bad to discriminate against women, like that book that was 'unacceptable' because it didn't have a sufficient number of women in it, but it's okay if women are the ones discriminating"? I'm clearly in the minority here, but I continue to maintain that it's bad to divide people up by gender (or age, color, or anything else). I think people should be seen as people, and the only way to do that is to stop doing other things. |
09-19-2010, 02:25 PM | #62 | |
Wizard
Posts: 4,395
Karma: 1358132
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: UK
Device: Palm TX, CyBook Gen3
|
Quote:
What I'd appreciate are links to facts and figures for the topics under discussion - anyone got any? |
|
Advert | |
|
09-19-2010, 02:44 PM | #63 | ||
Wizard
Posts: 1,533
Karma: 34583358
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Quincy, MA
Device: Samsung 54A, Kobo Libra H2O, Samsung S6 Lite
|
Quote:
Quote:
I'm not looking for a representative of me, but I am looking for something that is hopeful, and realistic of what is true now & should be even more so in the future. This was & still is the appeal of the original Star Trek. If a writer today, can't even write a book supposedly in the future by even those standards or todays, then in MY personal opinion, it isn't a very realistic or good book. |
||
09-19-2010, 02:46 PM | #64 | |
Wizard
Posts: 1,533
Karma: 34583358
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Quincy, MA
Device: Samsung 54A, Kobo Libra H2O, Samsung S6 Lite
|
Quote:
|
|
09-19-2010, 03:11 PM | #65 | |
Fanatic
Posts: 551
Karma: 1020204
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bosnia and Herzegovina
Device: Lenovo Yoga Tab 2 (Android)
|
Quote:
The second portion of the book examines the cultural developments brought on by changes in the demographic composition of the SF community: the increased prominence of women, gays and lesbians, and cybergoth youth culture. Though science fiction fans have long claimed tolerance and open-mindedness among their virtues, Bacon-Smith delineates the ways in which white male fans have resisted the incursion of others. SF fandom began with pulp era stories of technological heroism; while women were accepted and even welcomed by male fans all along if they identified themselves with this male agenda, by the late 1960's many women wishing to participate had different interests and tastes, having been drawn into fandom by non-scientific fantasy (e.g. Tolkien and Dungeons and Dragons) or non-print media (e.g. Star Trek). Having brought change into the culture, these women faced a backlash from traditionalist male fans in the 1980's. Similarly, lesbian and gay fans have historically found tolerance in fandom, but had little voice until the New Wave movement of the 1960's. Bacon-Smith reports that, ironically, many gay fans now find it more difficult to admit their interest in science fiction to the gay community than to announce their gayness to fellow fans; as an identity-defining culture itself, science fiction fandom has represented a threat to the increasingly politicized gay community. [emphasis mine]
|
|
Advert | |
|
09-19-2010, 03:46 PM | #66 | |
Curmudgeon
Posts: 3,085
Karma: 722357
Join Date: Feb 2010
Device: PRS-505
|
Quote:
I'm not in a book! I don't exist! Seriously, consider two characters: One doesn't have much of your personality, but is the same gender. One has a personality very close to yours, but is the opposite gender. Which one do you see yourself in? Apparently, most people would go for the chromosomes, not the personality. I'm the opposite. I don't care if someone who's like me is a man, a woman, or a tentacled alien from Alpha Centauri. Not to mention, of course, that I read and enjoy books where nobody is a whole lot like me. I'm looking for a good story; if I want a reflection of myself, that's what mirrors are for. |
|
09-19-2010, 04:44 PM | #67 | |
Wizard
Posts: 1,533
Karma: 34583358
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Quincy, MA
Device: Samsung 54A, Kobo Libra H2O, Samsung S6 Lite
|
Quote:
Women make up half of the population, but someone writes a book about life in the future with a huge space station that is populated & only about 2 women show up & neither is of any importance or has anything meaningful to do. Yeah that's really realistic. NOT! If this is what the future is going to look like I'm glad I won't be around to see it! |
|
09-19-2010, 09:02 PM | #68 |
Addict
Posts: 322
Karma: 1057749
Join Date: May 2010
Location: LA, CA
Device: Kindle Paperwhite 2013
|
Ummm, is it off topic at this point in the thread for me to say "Thank you!" to the AO3 mods for adding the download option? Most of my fanfic reading is done on my kindle, which is just perfect for the purpose. As much as I love my calibre, not having to copy & convert everything is going to be a real blessing.
|
09-20-2010, 12:01 AM | #69 |
Curmudgeon
Posts: 3,085
Karma: 722357
Join Date: Feb 2010
Device: PRS-505
|
I don't think I'm serving any purpose by continuing this discussion. I doubt if anyone will be able to persuade me that it's a good thing to divide people up by sex, and I'm not going to be able to convince other people that it's a bad thing. There's no middle we can meet in here, so we're going to have to agree to disagree.
In closing, to rephrase something I saw referring to religion: Anyone who can require other people to put appropriate numbers of women in their writing can require you to put appropriate numbers of men in yours. I don't know about anyone else, but I truly do not want a Committee of Political Correctness passing judgment on what I write. |
09-20-2010, 12:41 AM | #70 | |
Wizard
Posts: 1,162
Karma: 32196
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Anchorage, AK
Device: Sony Reader PRS-505, PRS-650, PRS-T3, Pocketbook HD2
|
Quote:
|
|
09-20-2010, 02:42 AM | #71 | |
Wizard
Posts: 4,395
Karma: 1358132
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: UK
Device: Palm TX, CyBook Gen3
|
Quote:
Interesting opinions ... but entrenched. |
|
09-20-2010, 10:30 AM | #72 | |
Wizard
Posts: 1,533
Karma: 34583358
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Quincy, MA
Device: Samsung 54A, Kobo Libra H2O, Samsung S6 Lite
|
Quote:
This is what others always bring up to avoid being held accountable for behavior or attitudes that are out of step for the current times. This has nothing to do with being PC, and everything to do with what is realistic for the current times & for the future. I'm not requiring anyone to think a certain way, read certain books, practice any one religion, or put a certain number of men or women in their books. All I'm saying is if I notice that what is in the book is not only unrealistic for 2010, but most assuredly for how it will be in the future, then I PERSONALLY will never read any more of that authors books. Since they are not interested in reflecting the reality of even todays world, and I'm not interested in reading about a backwards future. |
|
09-20-2010, 07:52 PM | #73 | |
Grand Sorcerer
Posts: 5,185
Karma: 25133758
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: SF Bay Area, California, USA
Device: Pocketbook Touch HD3 (Past: Kobo Mini, PEZ, PRS-505, Clié)
|
Quote:
In the comic, one character insists that she only watches movies that pass the test-- 1) It has to have at least two women, who 2) speak to each other, about 3) something other than a man. (She notes that the last movie she watched was Aliens... in which Ripley and Newt talk to each other about the monster.) Some people apply the test to books or tv shows, with similarly disappointing results. The point isn't which movies pass or don't pass. Passing is definitely not a sign of a feminist movie; not passing doesn't indicate misogyny. But the fact that few movies do pass, especially very few award-winning movies, says something about our society--it says "women's voices are irrelevant. You can include them if you want, but they're not *necessary*." Counting characters, noting gender and race of people involved, is essential to understanding hidden oppressions and negations. We *notice* anything unusual, out of the "ordinary"--and because of that, tend to think they are better represented than is true. Tokenism is not representation, and the only way to get past it is to pay attention to numbers. That doesn't mean instituting quotas, but it does mean acknowledging that we're getting a limited, filtered viewpoint. "White male" is not a neutral state for humanity; it's as biased as "Latina woman" or "queer Muslim;" it's just that the biases of the majority group are less obvious to other members of that group. |
|
09-21-2010, 12:49 AM | #74 |
Junior Member
Posts: 3
Karma: 10
Join Date: Sep 2010
Device: none
|
can someone tell me how to download ebooks...I'm kinda confused
|
09-21-2010, 01:43 AM | #75 | |
Wizard
Posts: 1,162
Karma: 32196
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Anchorage, AK
Device: Sony Reader PRS-505, PRS-650, PRS-T3, Pocketbook HD2
|
Quote:
Hope that helps... |
|
Tags |
fanfiction |
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Shortcovers (Kobo?) adds 1.8 million scanned books from The Internet Archive | anurag | News | 11 | 06-15-2011 06:15 AM |
Borders eBook download viewing options | vonbonds | General Discussions | 2 | 08-23-2010 10:47 PM |
Fantasy FanFic Competition - closes 30 June 2010 | pdurrant | Writers' Corner | 1 | 06-11-2010 07:11 AM |
Archive.org adds Mobi format for most of 1.8m books | Nate the great | News | 2 | 12-11-2009 03:01 PM |
Archive eBooks | Barry8416 | Sony Reader | 2 | 08-12-2009 06:27 PM |