"eBook versions of owned paper books" Popular Front - Page 5

kennyc · 09-30-2009, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hellmark

The only way I can see it as happening effectively, is offer a ebook for free/nominal fee, when ever you buy a paperbook. And from then on treat them as two book sales.

Exactly. That is the way Manning books handles it. As I said elsewhere you can purchase the Pbook, the Ebook or both depending on your needs and the prices vary for each choice.

You should not retroactively expect a publisher to give you a copy of a previously published book in a new format.

braver · 09-30-2009, 05:22 PM

Is there a smiley for loosing patience here? Not give, upgrade! With proof of ownership! For a fee! But with a discount w.r.t. separate sale.

NightGeometry · 09-30-2009, 05:23 PM

I'm on the side of - it's nice if a publisher offers a digital copy with a physical, and we should whole heartedly support them. If they don't, then I don't really have an issue with that - I only need one copy for most things.

I do take an emergency pbook away when I go on holiday, in case my reader breaks, but I will often buy an old second hand book to cover that scenario. I think it is reasonably unrealistic to expect a previous purchase ot be provided in another format, though I could see Amazon providing a discount on an ebook if you have bought the pbook through them - I think this could happen to get people buying from Amazon, so as a sales tool rather than as a selfless act - given that book prices are being driven down, I suspect Amazon would lose money doing this (regardless of whether the original is sold and whether that equates to a lost sale for someone).

In my case I prefer ebooks as I've just run out of space for physical ones, so it wouldn't really help me anyway.

On the off topic discussion - if I have a physical copy and an electronic copy is not available to me (regionally, or one of the many formats I can convert between to get on my reader), I don't feel bad if I do something I consider normally unethical to get an electronic copy. I don't however do that if I a) don't have the physical copy and b) the title is available. (Having the pbook for me implies I bought it new, and thus author and support staff got something). Sorry - I know that's off topic.

Moejoe · 09-30-2009, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by braver

Is there a smiley for loosing patience here? Not give, upgrade! With proof of ownership! For a fee! But with a discount w.r.t. separate sale.

No need to lose patience. I believe your idea is sound and is fully within the implementation of Amazon as a company on the technological and even business side of things (they could only actually make money on the deal, and so would the publishers) Will they? Probably not. Would I be willing to petition them for this reality? No, I don't deal with companies like Amazon any longer, not for any reason.

Lemurion · 09-30-2009, 05:42 PM

I don't so much think they need to provide the ebook with the paper edition - I figure it should be like movies: you can buy either the itunes download, or the DVD, or the special edition DVD that comes with the digital download as well. (Substitute Blu-ray or other format as desired.)

What I don't like is the way that Amazon is providing their "Digital Upgrade:" I think it's a rip-off. I believe that if they charge you extra for a digital copy in addition to the paper copy they should provide one that's usable. Given that in this model you're buying both versions - I see no problem with passing on the paper edition later.

Also: count me in the copyright infringement is not speeding camp. Yes it is illegal, yes many consider it immoral, but that doesn't make it the same as stealing. I can go with very similar, or even with someone saying they are morally equivalent, but they are legally different.

Hellmark · 09-30-2009, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by braver

Is there a smiley for loosing patience here? Not give, upgrade! With proof of ownership! For a fee! But with a discount w.r.t. separate sale.

Upgrade and give, in this context, is the same. Even if they charged you, the resources needed to be invested would not see a return. Plus it would be rife with fraud, as it would be fairly easy to "prove" you own a book. The companies would not have any incentive to do this. The only feasible way, is to have an option for it at the time of sale.

PennyPie · 09-30-2009, 06:52 PM

Hey guys...I just wanted to jump in here with a piece of info. When you buy a pbook from Amazon, there's a good chance you are buying it NOT from 'Amazon', as a seller, but from a private individual (or small dealer) using the Amazon venue to sell their wares. So Amazon is making only the seller fee for that purchase, not the 'cut' above what the publisher is charging.

With that in mind, how do you feel about the whole digital upgrade thingy, considering that Amazon may have merely been a go between for buyer and seller, and has no relationship with a publisher of the book in question?

lilac_jive · 09-30-2009, 07:00 PM

I'm a little late to the convo here, and didn't really feel like looking through the wholee thread.

Your idea (which has been brought up before here), is a cool one, but it has many pitfalls and is unrealistic. Frankly, I'd rather be fighting for lower prices on ebooks, or getting more ebooks out there. Publishers and booksellers are in this business to make money, and your plan will most likely involve losses on their part, even with a nominal fee. I can't get St Martins Press to even charge the same price for an ebook as the paperback version. I think things like that are more important than asking for mostly free copies of books I already have that I *might* reread in the future.

Now, should you be entitled to scan and convert the books you own yourself into an ebook for your own personal use? Yes, I think so.

orion2001 · 09-30-2009, 07:31 PM

One reason why Sony's UMD movies for the PSP failed spectacularly. Who in their right minds are going to buy a movie a second time just so they can watch it at some ridiculously low resolution on their PSP and no other device?

I don't mind buying ebooks, but I will only buy ones that either lack DRM or have DRM that can easily be stripped. Look what happened with Microsoft's "Plays for Sure" DRM for music. They eventually abandoned it and turned off their licensing servers. The end result? My fiancee can't listen to any of her legally purchased MP3's on her new laptop. The Mp3s that were DRM free (of-course there was no way to legally obtain them at the time) of course are still working well for us.

Already, Sony has abandoned LRF/LRX for EPUB. What happens when 1,2 or maybe 3 generations down, the new Sony Reader doesn't support LRF/LRX altogether? You/I lose out, because we were stupid enough to buy a DRM'd product.

As for me, I'm going to backup any book I purchase as a non DRMd HTML file so that I can always convert it to a format I need for interacting with any digital device, now or in the future. The ridiculous thing of-course is that I am breaking a law in the US by stripping DRM on files I purchased. Yet, no-one will take legal action on corporations like MS and others that enforce DRM and then massively screw over their customers.

AnemicOak · 09-30-2009, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by orion2001

Already, Sony has abandoned LRF/LRX for EPUB. What happens when 1,2 or maybe 3 generations down, the new Sony Reader doesn't support LRF/LRX altogether? You/I lose out, because we were stupid enough to buy a DRM'd product.

Not that I disagree with you on only buying books that can be stripped, I do. But the impression I've been getting it that Sony plans to let customers with LRX books exchange them for EPUB books when the 'switch' is made.

orion2001 · 09-30-2009, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnemicOak

Not that I disagree with you on only buying books that can be stripped, I do. But the impression I've been getting it that Sony plans to let customers with LRX books exchange them for EPUB books when the 'switch' is made.

Thats great to know and the right approach. Unfortunately not all companies adopt that policy when it comes to DRM and phasing it out. Many have replaced it or phased it out without providing any tools to reverse engineer it or to get a replacement.

edembowski · 09-30-2009, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by orion2001

...
As for me, I'm going to backup any book I purchase as a non DRMd HTML file so that I can always convert it to a format I need for interacting with any digital device, now or in the future. ...

I'd strongly recommend that you save them in non-drm'd epub. You can always get to the html my unzipping it, and the epub format holds everything together pretty well. If formats change in a few years, you'll still be able to get to your content.

-Ed

Moejoe · 09-30-2009, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by edembowski

I'd strongly recommend that you save them in non-drm'd epub. You can always get to the html my unzipping it, and the epub format holds everything together pretty well. If formats change in a few years, you'll still be able to get to your content.

-Ed

And Sigil can edit ePub directly, while also allowing you to get at the code for changes and all without unzipping the ePub. Best archive format in my opinion too

orion2001 · 09-30-2009, 08:47 PM

Thanks edembowski and Moejoe,

I'll keep that in mind. I'm hoping that Sony eventually comes up with an update for full-justified EPUB display. I can't wait to migrate my library to Epub.

AnemicOak · 09-30-2009, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by orion2001

Thats great to know and the right approach. Unfortunately not all companies adopt that policy when it comes to DRM and phasing it out. Many have replaced it or phased it out without providing any tools to reverse engineer it or to get a replacement.

Oh, totally. That's why I agree with you about only buying in a format that can be uninfected.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Yep. It's official. Sony Reader has "ruined" books for me. A final "review."	WilliamG	Sony Reader	48	01-14-2011 03:49 AM
Asked if he still reads books on paper, Jeff Bezos says: "Not if I can help it."	taglines	News	0	12-29-2009 07:48 AM
Ebook article/review on pocketlint UK "ebooks taking over the paper"	stustaff	News	4	07-07-2008 08:05 AM
Nemoptic worked in "stealth mode" on e-paper / initially no e-books	Alexander Turcic	News	3	04-20-2007 11:23 AM
Popular Science gives "Grand Award" to Reader	bingle	Sony Reader	7	11-28-2006 12:37 AM

09-30-2009, 05:22 PM	#62
braver Enthusiast Posts: 49 Karma: 86 Join Date: Sep 2009 Device: Amazon Kindle DX	Is there a smiley for loosing patience here? Not give, upgrade! With proof of ownership! For a fee! But with a discount w.r.t. separate sale.

09-30-2009, 05:23 PM	#63
NightGeometry Zealot Posts: 139 Karma: 1057240 Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Brighton, England Device: Sony PRS-T1, Kindle 3G, Kindle DX	I'm on the side of - it's nice if a publisher offers a digital copy with a physical, and we should whole heartedly support them. If they don't, then I don't really have an issue with that - I only need one copy for most things. I do take an emergency pbook away when I go on holiday, in case my reader breaks, but I will often buy an old second hand book to cover that scenario. I think it is reasonably unrealistic to expect a previous purchase ot be provided in another format, though I could see Amazon providing a discount on an ebook if you have bought the pbook through them - I think this could happen to get people buying from Amazon, so as a sales tool rather than as a selfless act - given that book prices are being driven down, I suspect Amazon would lose money doing this (regardless of whether the original is sold and whether that equates to a lost sale for someone). In my case I prefer ebooks as I've just run out of space for physical ones, so it wouldn't really help me anyway. On the off topic discussion - if I have a physical copy and an electronic copy is not available to me (regionally, or one of the many formats I can convert between to get on my reader), I don't feel bad if I do something I consider normally unethical to get an electronic copy. I don't however do that if I a) don't have the physical copy and b) the title is available. (Having the pbook for me implies I bought it new, and thus author and support staff got something). Sorry - I know that's off topic.

09-30-2009, 05:42 PM	#65
Lemurion eReader Posts: 2,750 Karma: 4968470 Join Date: Aug 2007 Device: Note 5; PW3; Nook HD+; ChuWi Hi12; iPad	I don't so much think they need to provide the ebook with the paper edition - I figure it should be like movies: you can buy either the itunes download, or the DVD, or the special edition DVD that comes with the digital download as well. (Substitute Blu-ray or other format as desired.) What I don't like is the way that Amazon is providing their "Digital Upgrade:" I think it's a rip-off. I believe that if they charge you extra for a digital copy in addition to the paper copy they should provide one that's usable. Given that in this model you're buying both versions - I see no problem with passing on the paper edition later. Also: count me in the copyright infringement is not speeding camp. Yes it is illegal, yes many consider it immoral, but that doesn't make it the same as stealing. I can go with very similar, or even with someone saying they are morally equivalent, but they are legally different.

09-30-2009, 06:52 PM	#67
PennyPie Cocoa & Toast...mmmmmm... Posts: 275 Karma: 1000 Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Ohio Device: Sony PRS-700, iPhone	Hey guys...I just wanted to jump in here with a piece of info. When you buy a pbook from Amazon, there's a good chance you are buying it NOT from 'Amazon', as a seller, but from a private individual (or small dealer) using the Amazon venue to sell their wares. So Amazon is making only the seller fee for that purchase, not the 'cut' above what the publisher is charging. With that in mind, how do you feel about the whole digital upgrade thingy, considering that Amazon may have merely been a go between for buyer and seller, and has no relationship with a publisher of the book in question?

09-30-2009, 07:00 PM	#68
lilac_jive Grand Sorcerer Posts: 5,870 Karma: 27376 Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Pennsylvania Device: PRS-505	I'm a little late to the convo here, and didn't really feel like looking through the wholee thread. Your idea (which has been brought up before here), is a cool one, but it has many pitfalls and is unrealistic. Frankly, I'd rather be fighting for lower prices on ebooks, or getting more ebooks out there. Publishers and booksellers are in this business to make money, and your plan will most likely involve losses on their part, even with a nominal fee. I can't get St Martins Press to even charge the same price for an ebook as the paperback version. I think things like that are more important than asking for mostly free copies of books I already have that I might reread in the future. Now, should you be entitled to scan and convert the books you own yourself into an ebook for your own personal use? Yes, I think so.

09-30-2009, 07:31 PM	#69
orion2001 Groupie Posts: 162 Karma: 24658 Join Date: Sep 2009 Device: PRS-505	One reason why Sony's UMD movies for the PSP failed spectacularly. Who in their right minds are going to buy a movie a second time just so they can watch it at some ridiculously low resolution on their PSP and no other device? I don't mind buying ebooks, but I will only buy ones that either lack DRM or have DRM that can easily be stripped. Look what happened with Microsoft's "Plays for Sure" DRM for music. They eventually abandoned it and turned off their licensing servers. The end result? My fiancee can't listen to any of her legally purchased MP3's on her new laptop. The Mp3s that were DRM free (of-course there was no way to legally obtain them at the time) of course are still working well for us. Already, Sony has abandoned LRF/LRX for EPUB. What happens when 1,2 or maybe 3 generations down, the new Sony Reader doesn't support LRF/LRX altogether? You/I lose out, because we were stupid enough to buy a DRM'd product. As for me, I'm going to backup any book I purchase as a non DRMd HTML file so that I can always convert it to a format I need for interacting with any digital device, now or in the future. The ridiculous thing of-course is that I am breaking a law in the US by stripping DRM on files I purchased. Yet, no-one will take legal action on corporations like MS and others that enforce DRM and then massively screw over their customers.

09-30-2009, 08:47 PM	#74
orion2001 Groupie Posts: 162 Karma: 24658 Join Date: Sep 2009 Device: PRS-505	Thanks edembowski and Moejoe, I'll keep that in mind. I'm hoping that Sony eventually comes up with an update for full-justified EPUB display. I can't wait to migrate my library to Epub.

Advert

Advert