Penguin no longer participates in Overdrive Library Service - Page 5

Nyssa · 11-23-2011, 10:33 AM

I hope this stunt has not lead to something ridiculous for Amazon customers.

JSWolf · 11-23-2011, 10:44 AM

At least Penguin doesn't have to refund money to libraries now.

JSWolf · 11-23-2011, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nyssa

I hope this stunt has not lead to something ridiculous for Amazon customers.

This stunt has led to no new Penguin eBooks borrowable from Overdrive. That is ridiculous for all users.

tubemonkey · 11-23-2011, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSWolf

This stunt has led to no new Penguin eBooks borrowable from Overdrive. That is ridiculous for all users.

It's Penguin's problem.

Nyssa · 11-23-2011, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSWolf

This stunt has led to no new Penguin eBooks borrowable from Overdrive. That is ridiculous for all users.

I understand that Jon, but as an Amazon customer I am hoping that there aren't any additional "penalties" to Amazon customers. Backroom deals to which we are not privy.

JSWolf · 11-23-2011, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

It's Penguin's problem.

That may be so, be we are the ones feeling the effects more then they are.

Kevin8or · 11-23-2011, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnnyb

All this will inspire is the following: download the epub, open with Calibre (with tools) and convert to mobi, send to Kindle...

I do this already.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProfCrash

Only if you know how to convert ebook formats and most of America is clueless about these things.

It's a pity; the information is easy to find. The first thing I did after ordering my e-reader was to google to learn how to manage e-books on my computer. In seconds I found Calibre, and from there landed at mobileread.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daithi

Also, we had $9.99 best sellers because of Amazon, at least until Apple got involved.

How did Apple (help) cause higher prices?

tubemonkey · 11-23-2011, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSWolf

That may be so, be we are the ones feeling the effects more then they are.

What Penguin does is not essential to your life. Consumers have the power to make or break a publisher. Rise up and punish Penguin for this stunt and force them to their knees. You have the power, so exercise it.

madamos · 11-23-2011, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin8or

I do this already.

It's a pity; the information is easy to find. The first thing I did after ordering my e-reader was to google to learn how to manage e-books on my computer. In seconds I found Calibre, and from there landed at mobileread.

How did Apple (help) cause higher prices?

Well, they catered to the publishing companies demands for a specific kind of pricing model. Take a look at this article: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/n...ice-fixing.ars

CRussel · 11-23-2011, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProfCrash

Amazon is in the middle of these things because the Publishers fear Amazon. Plain and simple. Agency Pricing, which hurt all of those who read e-books, is a reaction to Amazon lowering e-book prices.

Now Penguin is throwing a hissy fit because it fears a market dominated by Amazon. How library books on a Kindle hurt Penguin but library books on a Sony are fine is beyond me. Penguin is throwing a temper tantrum and acting like a spoiled child.

And posts like JSWolf's are simply re-enforcing that childish behavior and attitude.

Since Amazon and Overdrive worked out the technical problems or whatever the hold up was, there is no good reason to tell people with Kindles that they cannot check out library books. I don't care that folks with Sonys and Nooks and Kobos are bummed that the library lines got longer. Kindle users pay library fees just like Sony users and are entitled to check e-books out from the library just like any other ereader users.

Amen. I'd send you some K, but I have to spread it around first.

Some people seem to think that Kindle owners don't pay library fees. And that this is the victims fault. Typical.

MrsJoseph · 11-23-2011, 03:23 PM

You know what bothers me the most about this little stunt of Penguin's? It helps to reinforce the idea that ebooks are easily taken away if a large company arbitrarily changes its mind about something. That makes people nervous...

Scott Nicholson · 11-23-2011, 03:43 PM

As a reader, I don't ever look at the imprint--I get the authors I like. If one is gone, a hundred more take their place.

As a writer, I can understand some of their concerns, but it also just opens the door wider for all the progressive publishers, small presses and independent authors. Penguin just has some books under contract- it doesn't control the future of publishing, nor of literature, nor of the library ebook system.

I'd guess Amazon doesn't mind at all. Every time a publisher retreats, Amazon moves forward a little.

kjk · 11-23-2011, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrsJoseph

You know what bothers me the most about this little stunt of Penguin's? It helps to reinforce the idea that ebooks are easily taken away if a large company arbitrarily changes its mind about something. That makes people nervous...

Definitely. Same with other digital media hubs like iTunes and Netflix for me-anytime a movie or TV series disappears, regardless of the stated reasons, it just makes me trust them less.

khalleron · 11-23-2011, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daithi

Before Amazon got into the ebook market there was a selection of tens of thousands of ebooks, now there is a selection of over a million ebooks. So shouldn't Amazon get credit for that? Also, we had $9.99 best sellers because of Amazon, at least until Apple got involved.

3 million of those 'million books' are Google Books, so I wouldn't give Amazon all the credit.

Although I do agree Kindle users should have the same library privileges, it is perfectly true that Kindle lending has put a strain on library ebook lending that was not there before. I trust it will shake out in time, but it is a concern.

I still wonder why no one has filed a lawsuit against agency pricing - that's the very definition of 'price fixing' and highly illegal.

Penguin's actions don't make any sense on the surface - there must be something we're missing.

MrsJoseph · 11-23-2011, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by khalleron

Penguin's actions don't make any sense on the surface - there must be something we're missing.

I think it's about Amazon and publishers becoming competitors:

From here:

Quote:

ETA: Per today's Publisher's Lunch (login required, though it's free):

Though OverDrive had promised in April that patrons' "confidential information will be protected," in implementation their program is an engine for turning library users into Amazon customers. The expectation was that OverDrive would serve Kindle-compatible files, but instead they send patrons directly to Amazon's site for processing. Some publishers believe this violates their contracts with both OverDrive and Amazon....

Despite those contractual and "security" issues, some publishers we spoke to this fall had concluded that, under the first sale doctrine, it would be hard to achieve any remedy on ebooks already purchased by libraries. Little did they know that they could "instruct" OverDrive to stop serving Kindle versions and that OverDrive would comply. If this holds, you might see other publishers issuing similar instructions soon.

And I think this is making them angry, too.
from here:

Quote:

Amazon is lending one eBook per month to their Prime Kindle customers through the Kindle Owners' Lending Library. Similar to digital streaming of videos for Prime members on the Kindle Fire, Kindle owners who are also Prime members can borrow books from the "Kindle Owners' Lending Library" which appears as a menu option on the Kindle. Any book marked with a "Prime" logo is eligible for lending through the Kindle Lending Library.

The titles are only from certain publishers, not all, and Amazon customers can only borrow one book per month.

This is alarming for a few parties, including publishers, authors, and public libraries. This is basically a private lending library just for Kindle owners with Prime membership.

Publishers are frostily put out about this because, as the Publisher's Marketplace special bulletin read:

Quote:

As publishers and agents have started to realize with exasperation today, a number of titles in the Kindle Lending Library program--including some of the bestselling, prominently-promoted titles on the program's home page--are part of this new initiative without the consent or affirmative participation of the publishers and rightsholders. Not only that, but at least some come from companies that directly turned down Amazon's initial offer over the past few months to license a broad selection of backlist for a flat fee. Multiple participants were only told by Amazon yesterday (or found out themselves this morning) that this was happening. How could such a thing be possible, many people are wondering? Under most standard wholesale contracts with Amazon, as long the etailer pays the stipulated wholesale price for each download, there is nothing to prevent them choosing to give those titles away for free, under whatever additional rules they might designate. So Amazon pays the publisher the wholesale price each time a qualified Prime member "borrows" the ebook. Those will count as sales, because, well, they are sales, which will at least boost the "sales rank" of those titles at the site.

That explains why Amazon's press release specifically mentioned that "in some cases, Amazon is purchasing a title each time it is borrowed by a reader under standard wholesale terms as a no-risk trial to demonstrate to publishers the incremental growth and revenue opportunity that this new service presents." They weren't talking to consumers or the press; they were addressing publishers and authors.

Amazon spokesperson Sarah Gelman acknowledges that "for a minority of titles in the service, we added titles that we currently sell under wholesale terms, which we are purchasing in exactly the same fashion as when a customer buys a book a la carte from the store. It is essentially an Amazon-funded promotion, much the same as a Kindle Daily Deal or our long-standing 4-for-3 deal in children's books, where the author and publisher are compensated identically regardless of whether a book is purchased or borrowed."

As of right now, publishers and agents are trying to decide what they can do about the Kindle Lending Library, because Amazon is paying for the books, then lending them for free.

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11-23-2011, 10:33 AM	#61
Nyssa Series Addict Posts: 6,180 Karma: 167189477 Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Florida, USA Device: Kindle Paperwhite (2nd Gen)	I hope this stunt has not lead to something ridiculous for Amazon customers.

11-23-2011, 10:44 AM	#62
JSWolf Resident Curmudgeon Posts: 75,144 Karma: 132820308 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, PW3	At least Penguin doesn't have to refund money to libraries now.

11-23-2011, 03:23 PM	#71
MrsJoseph Loves Ellipsis... Posts: 1,554 Karma: 7899232 Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Washington, DC Device: Kobo Wifi (broken), nook STR (returned), Kobo Touch, Sony T1	You know what bothers me the most about this little stunt of Penguin's? It helps to reinforce the idea that ebooks are easily taken away if a large company arbitrarily changes its mind about something. That makes people nervous...

11-23-2011, 03:43 PM	#72
Scott Nicholson Scott Nicholson, author Posts: 363 Karma: 2029337 Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Boone NC Device: Kindle	As a reader, I don't ever look at the imprint--I get the authors I like. If one is gone, a hundred more take their place. As a writer, I can understand some of their concerns, but it also just opens the door wider for all the progressive publishers, small presses and independent authors. Penguin just has some books under contract- it doesn't control the future of publishing, nor of literature, nor of the library ebook system. I'd guess Amazon doesn't mind at all. Every time a publisher retreats, Amazon moves forward a little.

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