Amazon: Business As Usual?

[crossi]

I think Amazon should add the ability to read DRM'd epub, or at least non-DRM'd epubs, to their kindles. It would encourage those who origionally bought a nook or other device to buy a kindle when their old device dies. People with Amazon accounts buy more stuff from Amazon, not just books, so the more people encouraged to get an account the better for them.

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by crossi

I think Amazon should add the ability to read DRM'd epub, or at least non-DRM'd epubs, to their kindles. It would encourage those who origionally bought a nook or other device to buy a kindle when their old device dies. People with Amazon accounts buy more stuff from Amazon, not just books, so the more people encouraged to get an account the better for them.

Absolutely. I don't know that the DRM epub is practical, but adding support of non DRM'ed epubs would be fairly easy for them.

[speakingtohe]

Originally Posted by pwalker8

If I were to apologize every time I was in error, I would spend all my time saying I'm sorry! As long as one isn't trying to insult someone or isn't being malicious I see no reason to apologize for making mistakes. I do try to acknowledge that I was in error or that the other person is correct.

IMPO, the big reasons that DRM free is important for completion in the ebook store industry are

- the consumer doesn't have to worry about losing access to their ebooks. When Sony closed down their estore, then the customers no longer had access to a percentage of ebooks that had been pulled from the Sony store because the contract had expired. I think I had about a dozen books that didn't make the transition from Sony to Kobo. Fortunately, I download my ebooks as I purchase them, so I have them all.

- Even if a consumer reads on a tablet rather than a dedicated ebook reader, most probably don't want to have to have a bunch of reader apps and remember which app they used to purchase which ebook. For example, I have all my ebooks in Marvin, even though I bought them from Sony, Amazon and Baen.

Yes, obviously Amazon would prefer that you buy all your ebooks from them and read those books on your kindle device, just like Apple would prefer that you buy all your music from the iTunes store and listen on your iPod. However, Apple figured out that they would have more long term customers if they gave them the ability to rip CD's and put that music in their iTunes library. Given that Amazon put the effort into writing a kindle app for all sorts of different devices (a lesson that Sony didn't learn until they had already too far behind to catch up), and that Amazon allows the publisher to decide on DRM, it's pretty obvious that Amazon understands that they need to be flexible with customers. I would not be surprised if Amazon goes the Apple route and adds support for non Amazon formats to the kindle apps, as well as allows customers the flexibility of uploading their none Amazon books to the amazon cloud.

I think in the case of Sony it is a small percentage. Kobo is more nefarious in my opinion as Kobo apps on some tablets, will only allow you to read books purchased from Kobo, and I have yet to have a nicely behaving Kobo ereader. Still they seem to be thriving (according to Kobo subforum threads) despite having two types of DRM and I am wondering why. Oh right coupons.

I think (opinion here so bare with) that Apple saw the literally millions of songs being downloaded by mere children and that was the big motivation, not customer flexibility. That is just spin IMO.

And they had the option to divide an album into individual songs. In Canada the major market for music has always been the 13 and under crowd. Well since the 60's anyway. Their parents may pay, but they are the ones with the major need to have the latest songs. Changing the price to $1 or so per song makes sense in this market as all but the very poorest have a spare buck or two. Few children/early teens buy ebooks, their parents buy them for them so their is no saving of the allowance or going without that hot T-Shirt etc.

EBooks on the other hand can not be broken down conveniently. The majority of adults would not be buying books chapter by chapter just so they could spread a $10.00 purchase over a few weeks or months. Not saying it wouldn't happen, just not a common occurrence.

And yes indeed, lots of adults buy songs regularly for$1, but many of them were okay with buying albums, CDs, DVDs etc. and I know many adults from young to old who regularly buy DVDS of Movies and TV series, often DRMed and zone protected etc. for more than the price of an eBook. Go figure.

Helen

[pwalker8]

The market for music and video tends to be teens and young adults. The market for ebooks (and books in general) is likely older, though obviously there is a big market for kids. I don't think those demographics changes anything that I said. For the most part, Apple saw the iTunes store originally as a way to sale hardware (iPods) while Amazon sees kindles as a way to sale eBooks. Different business models on what they make money on. I do think that the explosion of tablets on the market has dramatically changed the dynamics of the ebook market from the ereader only market.

Right now, there isn't much competition for Amazon in the eBook market, but I don't see anything that inherently keeps someone with reasonable capitalization out of the market, i.e. no barrier to entry. Getting the contracts with the various publishers (i.e. building a catalog) and making it easy to buy and read an ebook from you are the keys.

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by pwalker8

Right now, there isn't much competition for Amazon in the eBook market, but I don't see anything that inherently keeps someone with reasonable capitalization out of the market, i.e. no barrier to entry. Getting the contracts with the various publishers (i.e. building a catalog) and making it easy to buy and read an ebook from you are the keys.

For that you want an integrated ereader. Adding hardware manufacture to the list, not just dealing with publishers.

And in order to be competition, you need to be significantly big; most people just go for whatever is best-known. The biggest barrier to entry is investing in it to grow it to the level of serious competition.

All this would be easier without Agency, of course. Small ebookstores could distinguish themselves with pricing, and grow into big companies that can afford a hardware line.

[pwalker8]

I don't really see an integrated ereader as being significant, not unless there is some big technology break through. Right now, that's a fading market. It's much more practical to produce a quality app than it is to produce hardware.

I also think that any competition that is based on pricing is doomed to fail. Amazon has deep pockets and would win a race to the bottom with anyone. Agency pricing would actually be better for competition. That way, a deep pocketed, established company like Amazon couldn't simply discount the competition out of existence.

Competition based on quality experiences is much more likely to be sustainable. A membership based model like Audible's monthly credits also might work, but once again, it has to be based on quality of the experience. That is where Amazon is vulnerable.

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by pwalker8

I don't really see an integrated ereader as being significant, not unless there is some big technology break through. Right now, that's a fading market. It's much more practical to produce a quality app than it is to produce hardware.

An eink device is the only ereader I'll read books on. When they're no longer being produced, I'll give up reading and switch completely to audiobooks.

[speakingtohe]

Originally Posted by pwalker8

The market for music and video tends to be teens and young adults. The market for ebooks (and books in general) is likely older, though obviously there is a big market for kids. I don't think those demographics changes anything that I said. For the most part, Apple saw the iTunes store originally as a way to sale hardware (iPods) while Amazon sees kindles as a way to sale eBooks. Different business models on what they make money on. I do think that the explosion of tablets on the market has dramatically changed the dynamics of the ebook market from the ereader only market.

Right now, there isn't much competition for Amazon in the eBook market, but I don't see anything that inherently keeps someone with reasonable capitalization out of the market, i.e. no barrier to entry. Getting the contracts with the various publishers (i.e. building a catalog) and making it easy to buy and read an ebook from you are the keys.

I think the demographics are significant in that adults have a bigger budget and control the budget for their children as well. besides being willing to spend money on a book for themselves many parents are more than happy to foot the bill for a book(s) for their children even if the books are pure entertainment. Maybe they are also willing to spend the same amount on songs for their children, but after the first thousand or so many draw a line and say you have lots of music, use your allowance. I have seen it happen often.

And tastes vary much more widely with books. I have heard numerous people, more young than adults say can I have copy of that with a song or a game. Rarely have I been asked for or offered a copy of an ebook and I discuss them a lot with people. Only once and it was actually a free book

I think that this may be at least in part because people have tried to do so, and failed, but some of it just attitude. A lot of people did not borrow or lend paper books except from the library so this how they treat eBooks.

I cannot see an incentive for even moderately successful publishers and authors to go DRM free although I know many have. For a new, or unsuccessful author it is possibly a good thing in that if no one is buying what is there to lose.

Some DRM free books have been wildly successful, but books with DRM have also been wildly successful and seem to continue to be so. Many many more both trad pub and Indy.

I actually think Apple is quietly regretting removing DRM from music, but that horse has left the barn.

And I think the big barrier in the US at least for anyone to overtake Amazon presently, although I am sure someone will, is the wide variety of things people already buy from them because of price, availability and convenience.

Take a lot of capitol to compete with them overall, Kobo only manages because of its readers, and the fact that Amazon does not cater to the epub crowd.

Helen

[pwalker8]

The thing that has caused Apple grief with regards to music is the growth of streaming music. While I might personally prefer to buy my music, I also have a subscription to both Pandora and iTunes radio. DRM really had nothing to do with that. Rather it was Pandora coming up with an algorithm that does a pretty good job of serving up music that I am in the mood for.

I could see something similar taking off for ebooks, where you subscribe to a book of the month service, or something like netflix for ebooks where you can only download a couple of books to your ebook reader/app at a time, and when you finish it, you delete it and download another one. A very large percentage of readers will read a book once and then never want to read it again. Not everyone is the compulsive collector and re-reader that I am. The market is new, so I expect a time of experimentation.

[HaemishM]

Originally Posted by pwalker8

I could see something similar taking off for ebooks, where you subscribe to a book of the month service, or something like netflix for ebooks where you can only download a couple of books to your ebook reader/app at a time, and when you finish it, you delete it and download another one.

There actually is a service like this already. It's called Scribd. I got a free 1-year sub from them for being a Smashwords author, though I haven't used it yet. My Kindle backlog along is pretty large and I read really slowly.

[AnemicOak]

Originally Posted by HaemishM

There actually is a service like this already. It's called Scribd.

There's also another one called Oyster.

[shalym]

Originally Posted by AnemicOak

There's also another one called Oyster.

...and now, Kindle Unlimited.

Shari

[Sydney's Mom]

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

An eink device is the only ereader I'll read books on. When they're no longer being produced, I'll give up reading and switch completely to audiobooks.

Yuck! I would have to switch to those ugly large print pbooks!

[jgaiser]

Originally Posted by Sydney's Mom

Yuck! I would have to switch to those ugly large print pbooks!

Well, audio books are an option. My Mom was a big reader (big being 1-2 books/month) until she lost her sight to Macular Degeneration. She got a subscription to Books For The Blind, which provided her with a tape player and a monthly(?) catalog through which you could order books with help from the family. I'm a Audible user, so I'll not be out of luck.

But... I still prefer to read with my eyes, which are getting worse as I inch toward my 70's. I love the ability to increase font size so I can continue to read without glasses. While the monkey will only read on e-ink, I'm perfectly satisfied with my Fire as a reading device and I expect I'll continue reading on long after the monkey has given up.

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by Sydney's Mom

Yuck! I would have to switch to those ugly large print pbooks!

In the words of someone famous:

"Give me eink or give me Audible!"