Classics Daniel Deronda by George Eliot

[sun surfer]

Originally Posted by issybird

To whom are you listening? I see Hoopla has Nadia May and Juliet Stevenson, both of whom I like, and it turns out I own a narration by Philippe Duquenoy, whom I’ve never heard. I figure I have to give him a try, if only because he reads slightly faster than May and significantly faster than Stevenson. While I expect mostly to read this, I may end up listening to one of the women at first and then switching to the man.

Only being focused at the time on the women I’d heard before, I didn’t notice that you’d mentioned trying Duquenoy. If you do listen to him I’d be curious your thoughts on his narration. It was hard to get enough of a feel for it from the sample at Audible.

[sun surfer]

Originally Posted by CharlieBird

I have to say this is the first book in which I have had to re-listen to so many sections. Not sure why, I'll be reading (listening) and find I myself completely at sea and have to go back a page or two.

I listened to the opening 15 minutes about three times.

Originally Posted by astrangerhere

I am really struggling with Deronda as a character. He just feels like a Mary Sue / Marty Stu to me. For those unfamiliar with the concept, this is a good history in Smithsonian Magazine:



"Mary Sues" as a concept date back to 1973 and the term came about exclusively in the Star Trek fandom. Marty Stu is a moniker that was adopted later to encompass male characters who operated the same way. But the notion of a character that is just so capital-G-Good that everyone loves them and can do no wrong definitely dates further back...

Marty Stu for a male version lol- I love it!

Originally Posted by poohbear_nc

Gwendolyn is a Trollope heroine suddenly thrust into a Dickensian plot.

I wonder if Mirah will traverse a reverse course from a dark beginning on the stage to the possibility of rescue through marriage.

I love the turn of phrase ‘traverse a reverse’!

[Bookpossum]

I haven't spent as much time as I would like with the book so far, but have seen enough of Gwendolen to decide that she is a brilliant portrait of a narcissist. She ticks all the boxes:

- an excessive need for admiration.
- disregard for others' feelings.
- an inability to handle any criticism.
- a sense of entitlement.

I do like Eliot's occasional amusing asides. As an example, the description of the horse Rex was riding and on which he came to grief:

... his father's grey nag, a good horse enough in his way, but of sober years and ecclesiastical habits.

[poohbear_nc]

My favorite aside so far:

Isabel, a plain and altogether inconvenient child with an alarming memory,

[BelleZora]

I read up to the Mordecai section before being away for ten days seeing relatives I haven't seen for awhile and doing cooking and shopping for my bridezilla granddaughter's wedding. I just arrived home and feel trepidation after reading earlier posts. Even worse, I have to review the first half of the book since I have forgotten a lot. But I will soldier on.

[sun surfer]

The opening scene of the roulette table at 4pm was so elegantly described and like a tableau that I thought of it as a painting; if I were a painter I’d want to create it on canvas.

[poohbear_nc]

Eliot uses a variety of literary styles, changing up to match each main character. The initial Gwendolyn sections are light and elegant. The Deronda sections are slower and weightier - as befitting a serious thinker who tends to brood. The Mordecai sections are ponderous, learned, and often (IMHO) abstruse.

There is also a significant shift in style between the early Gwendolyn/Grandcourt chapters and the later ones, as characters and relationships alter profoundly - especially in the dialogue.

[WT Sharpe]

In my world, Deronda has now met his mother, and I'm wondering: was Gwendolen intended as a sort of prefiguring of Deronda's mother? The flaws and tragedies of their lives seem to be very similar.

[pdurrant]

Originally Posted by WT Sharpe

In my world, Deronda has now met his mother, and I'm wondering: was Gwendolen intended as a sort of prefiguring of Deronda's mother? The flaws and tragedies of their lives seem to be very similar.

They are/were both beautiful women, but as far as I can see that's the extent of their similarity.

[poohbear_nc]

Originally Posted by WT Sharpe

In my world, Deronda has now met his mother, and I'm wondering: was Gwendolen intended as a sort of prefiguring of Deronda's mother? The flaws and tragedies of their lives seem to be very similar.

Or is his mother to be contrasted with Mirah? One successful and happy on the stage, one not ...

[Bookpossum]

Originally Posted by poohbear_nc

From this source:

"Daniel Deronda was first published from February through September of 1876, in monthly installments of approximately 110 pages each. Victorian readers enjoyed and absorbed the novel one portion at a time, discussing the story’s gradual unfolding with friends and family and anticipating the turns each new installment would take. Eliot’s original installments will naturally form the framework of these serial readings."

This would seem to tie in with the eight books into which Daniel Deronda is divided.

As we all seem to be at very different stages in our reading, is it worth aiming at discussing the book in chunks? Given that we are allowing about three months in total for reading and discussion before moving on to East Lynne, what if we were to discuss the book as follows:

Books 1-3 starting on, say, Saturday 5 June,
Books 4-6 starting around Saturday 26 June, and
Books 7-8 and the novel as a whole starting around 17 July?

Would it help to have that sort of structure, or is it preferable to leave any deeper discussion until towards the end of the time we have allocated?

I must confess that I would find it helpful to have more structure to what we are doing, but others may well not agree.

[poohbear_nc]

Since we have readers staggered along the course of the book, some barely started, and some who jumped in and are now finished, organizing the discussion by chunks could prevent us from giving away plot points, or having to use spoiler tags, to launch discussion topics/observations.

We could try out your calendar and modify it, if needed, along the way. I like your notion of emulating the experience of the original readers, as each new installment moved on the story lines.

[sun surfer]

I’m in Book 2 now but don’t mind spoilers here and have been reading all the posts. I’m fine with whichever way you guys prefer.

[CRussel]

I like the idea. I've been mostly avoiding the discussion here because I expected spoilers and my reading of it is going very slowly. (Honesty compels me to say I'd have completely abandoned it a week or two ago if it weren't for this discussion.) So breaking things up seems best. And gives us laggards at least a chance of keeping up.

[fantasyfan]

So far, (and I’m probably behind most readers) I am finding the Gwendolen Harleth section very brilliantly written and quite reminiscent of Jane Austen. The social scenes in Book 1 have all the irony-fuelled qualities we see in Eliot’s great predecessor. The next point is from chapter 4 of Book 1 so it is made fairly early on, but I will put it in as a spoiler.

Spoiler:

The attitude to marriage by Gwendolen harkens back to Charlotte Lucas:
“ . . . but to become a wife and wear all the domestic fetters of that condition, was on the whole a vexatious necessity. Her observation of matrimony had inclined her to think it rather a dreary state, in which a woman could not do what she liked, had more children than were desirable, was consequently dull, and became irrevocably immersed in humdrum. Of course marriage was social promotion; she could not look forward to a single life; but promotions have sometimes to be taken with bitter herbs – a peerage will not quite do instead of leadership to the man who meant to lead; and this delicate-limbed sylph of twenty meant to lead.”

BTW Am I supposed to save any discussions until later? I gathered that we would be discussing the book in stages as it developed. Hence, my comments are only on the first section. Let me know if I am in error. (?