Poll on obstacles to ebook buying

[alecE]

I understand what you are saying re. geo restrictions and worldwide rights. There seems to be a basic failure to understand though, that ebooks are offered for sale on the WORLDWIDE web, and if it were not for the fact that the point of sale is deemed to be the consumer's PC, then ebooks could (presumably) be bought in the same un-restricted way that pbooks are. As things stand at the moment though, a geographically restricted ebook means a lost sale - I'm not going to buy the pbook instead.

I understand that publishers cannot easily address geo restrictions unilaterally, but I do think the industry needs to wake up, quickly, to the probability that they are alienating customers and encouraging the dark net by maintaining geo restrictions.

[igorsk]

Baen buys non-exclusive worldwide electronic rights. I don't see why other publishers can't do the same.

[rhadin]

Originally Posted by Pardoz

Of course they are, since the extant geo restrictions on e-books were invented by publishers, and within the last year. All they have to do is stop pretending that an e-book sale happens where the recipient is, rather than where the seller is - in other words accept the status quo situation with physical books - instead of persisting in this counter-productive fantasy that buying a book from Amazon is fundamentally different than buying a book from Amazon. Problem solved.

Perhaps in Poland there is no respect for contracts, but in most of the Western world contracts are respected and publishers do not own worldwide rights. Publishers did not invent geo restrictions within the past year; geo restrictions have been part of publishing for decades. Authors preferred, and perhaps still do, to sell publishing rights to various publishers around the world so they can control their books and also get more money for selling of the rights.

[rhadin]

Originally Posted by igorsk

Baen buys non-exclusive worldwide electronic rights. I don't see why other publishers can't do the same.

Other publishers can but how many authors will be willing to accept significantly reduced advances in exchange? Baen is a niche publisher. It is moderately successful in its niche, but it is not a major player in the publishing world and its model will not work for most larger publishers regardless of how much any of us would like to think it would.

[wdreamsmaycome]

Originally Posted by rhadin

Perhaps in Poland there is no respect for contracts, but in most of the Western world contracts are respected and publishers do not own worldwide rights. Publishers did not invent geo restrictions within the past year; geo restrictions have been part of publishing for decades.

if georestrictions have been part of publishing for decades, why is it that pbooks and ebooks are treated differently? Seems to me that georestrictions have started affecting consumers (in video, music and books) only when goods started becoming digital.

There is quite a difference IMHO between 'I will give Feltrinelli rights to publish this book in Italian for Italy' and 'I will give Feltrinelli rights to publish this book in English for Italy': I haven't ever seen a local publisher in a non-English-speaking country publish an English version of their book, so why shouldn't the english ebook be available?

Regarding the English-speaking situation (with UK/US/Canada) I understand that a Canadian publisher can buy the rights to publish a Canadian edition of a book and wouldn't definitely like if a US publisher could sell it directly, on the other hand as things stand now I *can* buy a pbook in the UK from Canada (paying import duties) so why not an ebook?

[desertgrandma]

Originally Posted by rhadin

Other publishers can but how many authors will be willing to accept significantly reduced advances in exchange? Baen is a niche publisher. It is moderately successful in its niche, but it is not a major player in the publishing world and its model will not work for most larger publishers regardless of how much any of us would like to think it would.

Wait. Let me get my head around this.

The decision to allow ebook rights globally rests with BOTH publishers and authors?

Not just publishers?

So..........Stephen King isn't available in the UK because either him or his publisher refuse to allow it?

[Ben Thornton]

Originally Posted by desertgrandma

Wait. Let me get my head around this.

The decision to allow ebook rights globally rests with BOTH publishers and authors?

Not just publishers?

As I understand it, the author can (and often does) sell the rights to different publishers, each of which covers different territories. If the US publisher releases an e-book, but the UK publisher can't be bothered, you can get the effect that UK customers can see the book on Amazon, but not buy it.

They aren't selling geographical rights to ebooks per se, I suspect, but the ebook rights are being bundled with those for physical books.

[desertgrandma]

Originally Posted by Ben Thornton

As I understand it, the author can (and often does) sell the rights to different publishers, each of which covers different territories. If the US publisher releases an e-book, but the UK publisher can't be bothered, you can get the effect that UK customers can see the book on Amazon, but not buy it.

They aren't selling geographical rights to ebooks per se, I suspect, but the ebook rights are being bundled with those for physical books.

'sigh. Thank you .

[calvin-c]

As noted, a great deal of the blame for GR rests with the authors-but part of it also rests with the publishers' reluctance to change their 'standard' contracts. I doubt if consumers can apply enough pressure to the publishers to get them to change their contracts, but maybe we can influence the authors, and they can certainly get the publishers to change the contracts. (IMO the publishers would be more afraid of their sources of new books drying up, e.g. self-publishing, than of their customers disappearing. Mostly because the former has happened to some publishers, while I don't believe the latter ever has.)

[desertgrandma]

What I find incredible, is that both author and publishers haven't realized one simple fact.

The demand for ebooks all over the world is growing by leaps and bounds.

Most people would willingly pay reasonable prices for a decently formatted ebook.

However, many of these same people will finally throw up their hands in disgust and go get the book they want somewhere else....

Everyone loses this way.

[Xenophon]

Originally Posted by wdreamsmaycome

if georestrictions have been part of publishing for decades, why is it that pbooks and ebooks are treated differently? Seems to me that georestrictions have started affecting consumers (in video, music and books) only when goods started becoming digital.

There is quite a difference IMHO between 'I will give Feltrinelli rights to publish this book in Italian for Italy' and 'I will give Feltrinelli rights to publish this book in English for Italy': I haven't ever seen a local publisher in a non-English-speaking country publish an English version of their book, so why shouldn't the english ebook be available?

Regarding the English-speaking situation (with UK/US/Canada) I understand that a Canadian publisher can buy the rights to publish a Canadian edition of a book and wouldn't definitely like if a US publisher could sell it directly, on the other hand as things stand now I *can* buy a pbook in the UK from Canada (paying import duties) so why not an ebook?

It's a question of where the sale is deemed to occur. See my post here on the subject.

Xenophon

[wdreamsmaycome]

Originally Posted by Xenophon

It's a question of where the sale is deemed to occur. See my post here on the subject.

very informative post. How can a physical book bought online and an e-book bought online FROM THE SAME WEBSITE have a different 'locus' for the sale is beyond me, you would think that they'd be the same, but then again as soon as things become digital 'common sense' seems to go right out the window (cue discussion about nowadays not being able to buy goods anymore outright, just licenses for those goods to be displayed/played on a specific device for a specific amount of time subject to the seller's whims as well).

[asjogren]

"It's a question of where the sale is deemed to occur. See my post here on the subject."

Yes, but that is archaic. Where is the sale if I am sailing across the ocean and connect via satellite? Or if I am on a cruise ship? Or, on an airplane? The process is thinking statically in a dynamic environment. Yes, these are special cases. But, they illustrate how out of touch the situation is.

The geographic restrictions are the Industry's problem, not mine. The fools are losing money on a lost cause.

It is easier to find an illicit copy of an eBook than to bypass some of these geographic restrictions. The distinction between deceit and copyright violation is not huge.

[dmikov]

Originally Posted by Ben Thornton

As I understand it, the author can (and often does) sell the rights to different publishers, each of which covers different territories. If the US publisher releases an e-book, but the UK publisher can't be bothered, you can get the effect that UK customers can see the book on Amazon, but not buy it.

They aren't selling geographical rights to ebooks per se, I suspect, but the ebook rights are being bundled with those for physical books.

Well another beautiful illustration of money wasteful nature of publishing, for which they want customers to pay citing the costs of books is more then just printing.
All this editing/proofreading/preparation cost they recite like a mantra, done not once, but twice or more times because the same book/manuscript is sold to multiple publishing companies?

[alvico]

Originally Posted by rhadin

Perhaps in Poland there is no respect for contracts, but in most of the Western world contracts are respected and publishers do not own worldwide rights. Publishers did not invent geo restrictions within the past year; geo restrictions have been part of publishing for decades. Authors preferred, and perhaps still do, to sell publishing rights to various publishers around the world so they can control their books and also get more money for selling of the rights.

I don't think that's what Pardoz meant. Anyone anywhere in the world can buy any published paper book (irrespective of rights) from Amazon in the US. The point is sale is deemed to be in the US. So why is an ebook different?