Has anyone else's work attracted trolls?

[E.M.DuBois]

Originally Posted by arjaybe

I'm afraid step one eliminates me from this gay pastime. Although I am intrigued by the prospect of using my tweets to twit twerps, I've never actually taking the step of joining the Twitter club. Am I to be forever left behind?

Yes, I'm afraid you'll forever be cursed to people giving you well-thought out, sincere reviews and opinions of your work, not only including what they liked, but what they thought may have been wrong, and suggestions for improvement (aka, criticism.) You bound to never know the joy of some deadbeat stranger coming out of the Aether of cyberspace and insulting your work of you personally for absolutely no reason. Such a life left woefully unfulfilled... I pity you, friend.

[Cinisajoy]

Back to the original post,
I'm not a writer per se, though I do have a cookbook that will never see ebook form due to the expense.
I did however once have either a troll or misguided soul get on to me about my name.
It was back in the old yahoo game room days. Some woman came in screeching about how I shouldn't be advertising that as a joy because it is evil. I asked her what she was talking about. She said sin is not a joy and that I was not a nice person for saying it was.
I told her my name is Cindy and sin is never spelled cin.
She split in a hurry.

[darryl]

Originally Posted by Cinisajoy

Back to the original post,
I'm not a writer per se, though I do have a cookbook that will never see ebook form due to the expense.
I did however once have either a troll or misguided soul get on to me about my name.
It was back in the old yahoo game room days. Some woman came in screeching about how I shouldn't be advertising that as a joy because it is evil. I asked her what she was talking about. She said sin is not a joy and that I was not a nice person for saying it was.
I told her my name is Cindy and sin is never spelled cin.
She split in a hurry.

Did she type in all capitals with little regard for grammar and spell phonetically whilst calling the wrath of God upon you?

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by darryl

Did she type in all capitals with little regard for grammar and spell phonetically whilst calling the wrath of God upon you?

She wasn't that sophisticated.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by HarryT

You've got me interested to know what the meaning was. In British English it either means "lazing around", or the room in your house in which you engage in such an activity (ie the living room).

Well, this usage--"sofa" and also, the "room in which you engage," etc., this would actually be an incorrect derivative of chaise longue, would it not? Which is constantly misspelt as "Chaise Lounge," as in, well, lounging?

Wouldn't that be the derivation? I'd think?

Hitch

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by E.M.DuBois

And of course, you'd be wrong. I've spent years proofing and reproofing. Spell-check was never my only tool. I like how everyone has to include a spell-check jab, as if it does absolutely nothing for anybody. Anyway, yeah, I'd love to get it edited by a pair of independent eyes. But the whopping $1.16 in my bank account and my inability to offer a service in exchange for editing says that's not happening. So it's just going to have to be me.

Spoiler:

I'm going to preface what I'm going to say with the fact that this particular topic, and sub-topic (not having adequate funds to pay for an editor/proofer, etc.) is a hot button of mine. I don't mean to sound snarky or aggressive or anything else, and if I do at any point in this post, it's unintentional. It's simply that I see this and read it, near-daily, and honestly, it kinda gets up my nose.

That being said: this is why God(s) in her/their infinite wisdom created writing groups and critique groups. That's exactly why they exist. Surely, even today's new writers cannot be operating under some misapprehension that for a hundred years, all the writers that e'er were, and e'er were published, somehow paid for editors to review and fix their work, before they submitted them to agents and publishers? Or worse, the equally irritating misapprehension that writers, themselves, didn't have to bother with all that pesky sh*t, and that's why editors and proofers, etc., at the publishers, existed? To clean up the detritus of the creative process?

Ye gods. Writing and critique groups exist for one purpose: so that writers may improve their writing. That sadly-neglected phrase and concept, "improve your writing" doesn't mean merely tightening up action scenes, or polishing dialogue, or understanding how to write transitions; it means finding egregious spelling and grammatical errors, as well. If you don't know the difference between there, their and they're, this is something that you can at least learn to see and catch, if you invest the time and effort into learning how to give and receive critiques. Critiquing--the giving and the getting--is an essential, essential part of a writer's development into a successful author. In my opinion, for what that's worth, it's not an optional, skip-this-if-you-feel-like-it step.

The good part? This isn't expensive. Yes, yes, some groups have entry fees, to keep out the riffraff. Some critique groups are in private forums, which require membership, but the real cost is in the fact that generally, you are required to give as many crits as you get, or some form of reciprocity.

Very few new writers today are aware that you learn more, oftentimes, in giving crits, than getting crits. (n.b.: the reason that so many fora require "giving to get" is because historically, if you leave writers to their own thing, and don't require the giving---you'll never get the giving part. It's unfortunate but true. Typically, authors want the crits, but can't be bothered to give them. Thus, the 'give to get' methodology of most groups. Don't want to do the reciprocity? Then pay. That's why some groups charge--so that you will get the crits.)

You can find and join cheap local city college writing courses. Typically, $15-$25, total, for a night course. That always involves critiquing. It can result in meeting writing buddies that you may have for your lifetime. Can't do that? Look for online courses. Everyone--positively everyone--can use a coach, a writing instructor. And again: you get readings and crits.

None of that works for you? Join a writer's group or forum or thread--like this one--and develop a group of your own. No? Then find a writing buddy. Make sure that it's not someone you're in love with, or even have to like--get someone who is strong where you are weak, and bring your strength to it, for his/her areas of weakness.

All of this is free or cheap. ALL of it. You don't have money, you trade your time/labor. It's a time-honored tradition. It's how a hundred years' of writers learned to perfect their craft, on their way to becoming trade-pubbed authors. They took CLASSES (yes, I know, bloody unheard of today!), they studied with their classmates, they had crits with their classmates and their instructors. They didn't just kerplunk down some full-length novel, and expect it to be the next "DaVinci Code." When they weren't taking courses, they went to writer's groups, and they each sat there and read pieces to each other. They suffered the slings and arrows of crits from their buddies--and glowed when they got great feedback. The first time they heard "oh, my god, that made me cry!," they could float off the ground for days.

This is how it's done. Realistically, nobody learns to run before they can walk, and this is how everyone--back when the quality of writing mattered--learned to write, learned to proof their OWN work, or at the absolute minimum, learned how to trade proofing with other people, to help find their own mistakes.

And all it takes is effort--not a lot of money. You'll be a better writer for it, not merely a better grammarian and speller.

(Personally, I think that "spellcheck" and "grammar check," etc., are utterly worthless.)

Hitch

[AlexBell]

Originally Posted by crich70

a 'fortnight' is around 2 weeks isn't it?

A 'fortnight' is two weeks. It's derived from 'fourteen nights

[darryl]

@Hitch. Great post. However, for me it conjures the vision of a new member of such a group saying "By the way, here is my 600 page novel which I've produced all by myself. No outside help. Could you please edit it for me? By next Wednesday, please." I'm not, of course, seriously suggesting that the OP would do this. Just that it probably won't solve his immediate problem in anything like the time-frame he would like, though it is great advice for the future. I don't have any first hand experience of such groups but would imagine they would be invaluable as a member was writing a book, with smaller excerpts being submitted and critiqued regularly, and the relationships and involvement of the members developing to the point where they would be happy to read and critique much longer almost finalised works for each other. Given that the OP is apparently working on his next book now would sound like a great time for him to join such a group or get a writing buddy.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by darryl

@Hitch. Great post. However, for me it conjures the vision of a new member of such a group saying "By the way, here is my 600 page novel which I've produced all by myself. No outside help. Could you please edit it for me? By next Wednesday, please."

LOL, you are 100% right, of course, Darryl. That would be dread dire, indeed. And, of equal importance, it wouldn't happen, because the critique buddies would take him outside and beat him to death. (jk). Nobody's going to do that for you, not like that.

I'm not, of course, seriously suggesting that the OP would do this. Just that it probably won't solve his immediate problem in anything like the time-frame he would like, though it is great advice for the future.

Well, that being the case, I'm going to suggest two such tools. One is Grammarly. It's far from perfect, but it's a sh*tload better than Word's built-in grammar checker. It's not free (although there is a free option/version), but it's reasonably cheap. It will catch homonym errors, by and large. I have it--I use it as a quick typo-finder, in a browser window. Saves me enormous amounts of time when crafting emails and posts.

Secondly--although this likely won't help with spellchecking--the OP should go forth and get Brown's must-have, "Self Editing for the Fiction Writer." https://www.amazon.com/Self-Editing-...dp/0060545690/ . I don't know one single trade-pubbed author that doesn't have this--sometimes more than one--sitting on their desk. Worth every penny, twice over.

I don't have any first hand experience of such groups but would imagine they would be invaluable as a member was writing a book, with smaller excerpts being submitted and critiqued regularly, and the relationships and involvement of the members developing to the point where they would be happy to read and critique much longer almost finalised works for each other. Given that the OP is apparently working on his next book now would sound like a great time for him to join such a group or get a writing buddy.

I just saw a really good post...hmmmm....where was it? On...dammit. Quora. (Sorry--oddly enough, I also answered a similar--not identical--question there, yesterday, and she did, too--Mercedes Lackey, I mean, and she posted a bunch of GREAT books): https://www.quora.com/Should-I-give-...-writing-sucks

OP--scroll down to Mercedes' post, and check out the Karen Elizabeth Gordon's books. https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_s...=2E59F5WBMYA70 (Sorry for the length of the link, but MR doesn't allow shortlinks/redirects). ALL of these are worth getting, but if grammar is an issue, I'd suggest the Transitive Vampire.

Failing that--as learning grammar is hard, from a book--I am out of suggestions. There are fellow writers everyplace. I don't know what the OP does for a living, but barter is older than sin. Okay, well...not older than sin, but it's a close second--if you think about it.

OP: Good luck.

Hitch

[meeera]

Originally Posted by darryl

@Hitch. Great post. However, for me it conjures the vision of a new member of such a group saying "By the way, here is my 600 page novel which I've produced all by myself. No outside help. Could you please edit it for me? By next Wednesday, please." I'm not, of course, seriously suggesting that the OP would do this. Just that it probably won't solve his immediate problem in anything like the time-frame he would like, though it is great advice for the future.

Fast, good, cheap: pick any two.

There are no shortcuts or magic tricks.

[crich70]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Yes. The word originates from an Old English phrase meaning "fourteen nights".

I thought it was but we don't encounter it very often here in the U.S. just like the word 'score.' I mean we hear about it in terms of the 'score' of the game (basketball, football etc) but not in the sense of 'four score and seven....' which means it's also a way of counting out 20 of something i.e. 20 yrs so that four score and seven would be 87 yrs.

[BookCat]

Could I make the outrageous suggestion that the OP learns some basic grammar and rules of good writing? Maybe spend a week working his way through Shrunk and White's Elements of Style, for starters, then applying what he's learned to the editing.

As to getting a few trolls, simple:
1. Get a youtube account.
2. Upload a video of your dog/cat playing
3. End the video with a reading from your latest book.
4. In the 'details' include a link to the site from which your book can be downloaded.
5. Wait for the dog/cat hating comments
6. Feed the trolls ie argue with them.
7. The trolls will get excited and more will climb on board.
8. Continue feeding the trolls.
You'll soon have lots of fat, fast-breeding trolls telling you all kinds of horrible things. You may even collect some defenders. Either way, people will be talking about you, or at least insulting you.

Happy troll-baiting!

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by BookCat

Could I make the outrageous suggestion that the OP learns some basic grammar and rules of good writing? Maybe spend a week working his way through Shrunk and White's Elements of Style, for starters, then applying what he's learned to the editing.

<Snippage>

Indeed, and it was remiss of me not to mention it. S&W is the old-school, gotta-have way to fly. :-) I think that because it's so old, people ignore it. BUT, as you point out, BC, it's THE classic.

Hitch

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Hitch

Indeed, and it was remiss of me not to mention it. S&W is the old-school, gotta-have way to fly. :-) I think that because it's so old, people ignore it. BUT, as you point out, BC, it's THE classic.

Hitch

I'd note that the equivalent for British English is Fowler's "Modern English Usage". A work which should be on every British writer's bookshelf.

[BookCat]

I'm British and the problem with Fowler's is that it's very difficult to use as a reference tool but not a book one could happily read beginning to end. It is fine for 'dipping into' during bored moments. The best easy reference for good English that I have is: "The Good English Guide; English Usage in the 1990s" compiled and written by Godfrey Howard. You could probably pick this up from Amazon second hand; although it's old, Shrunk and White's book is older.
Until you pointed this out, I was unaware that S and W were American.