HarperCollins returns to Full Agency pricing

[murg]

Originally Posted by pwalker8

Yep, people want to throw music, movies and books together for some reason, when really all three have very different business models and dynamics.

I think that the use of music and movies as examples is to show that there are other avenues for entertainment that provide far more value than books.

Originally Posted by pwalker8

For example, the best selling book from 1929, "All Quiet on the Western Front" sold 2.5 million copies in the first year and a half. "How Green was my Valley" held the record for sales in the US for a number of years with 250,000 copies sold in the United States. "Harry Potter and the Half Blood Prince" sold 9 million copies in the first day.

Is this apples and oranges? Are these US, UK or global sales figures? What is the population/market differences?

HPatHBP was also the sixth book of a very popular series, not standalone books, or the first of a series (not that they know this when first published).

[shalym]

Originally Posted by murg

Used book prices are generally fixed at half the cover price (providing there is a cover price). This allows the used book shop to pay a quarter of the cover price for the book.

That may be the case in Australia, but I can assure that it isn't like that in the US. There is no fixed price for used books, or for new books either, for that matter.

Shari

[Phogg]

Originally Posted by murg

Used book prices are generally fixed at half the cover price (providing there is a cover price). This allows the used book shop to pay a quarter of the cover price for the book.

I have been buying large quantities of used books since the 1960s.
Recent releases may command half of cover price, but much of what is out there is far less expensive than that. Always has been within my lifetime.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by tompe

Then these people have to wait until the paperback is out and the price for the ebook will be lower.

But as we know, that's asinine. The reason the hardcover is more expensive than the paperback is the container. But an eBook has EXACTLY the same container regardless of what the current pBook is. So the price for the eBook should be lower to start with.

[MikeB1972]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

But as we know, that's asinine. The reason the hardcover is more expensive than the paperback is the container. But an eBook has EXACTLY the same container regardless of what the current pBook is. So the price for the eBook should be lower to start with.

Nope, the reason the hardcover is more expensive is a combination of the container and the ability to read it now.

How is pricing ebooks high then dropping them when the mmpb comes out any different than selling a dvd for €£$20 new then dropping it to €£$5 after 12 months?

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by MikeB1972

Nope, the reason the hardcover is more expensive is a combination of the container and the ability to read it now.

Absolutely. Baen, for example, have sold high-priced ARCs ("Advance Reader Copy") version of their ebooks for years, based on the principle that there are always people who are willing to pay more (a lot more, in Baen's case) to read the book "now", rather than waiting a few months for the lower-priced edition. Hardbacks are just the same.

[shalym]

Originally Posted by MikeB1972

Nope, the reason the hardcover is more expensive is a combination of the container and the ability to read it now.

How is pricing ebooks high then dropping them when the mmpb comes out any different than selling a dvd for €£$20 new then dropping it to €£$5 after 12 months?

I wouldn't have a problem with that, if the retailers were allowed to discount like they are for paper books. I have never in my life paid the cover price for a hardcover book, even when I bought one on the day of release.

Shari

[Cyberman tM]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Absolutely. Baen, for example, have sold high-priced ARCs ("Advance Reader Copy") version of their ebooks for years, based on the principle that there are always people who are willing to pay more (a lot more, in Baen's case) to read the book "now", rather than waiting a few months for the lower-priced edition.

Never heard of that, but I like it - direct and honest.
If the hardback would be renamed to something similar, maybe a lot of the anger would go away.

[pdurrant]

Originally Posted by Cyberman tM

Never heard of that, but I like it - direct and honest.

In one or two of their early mailings about eARCs, the Baen ad copy did say that they wanted to take advantage of true fans by charging them for early access. I even bought some eARCs myself, knowing full well that I was being taken advantage of, but happy to get the new book early, even at a high price.

Now if BPH offered high-priced ebooks of new releases a couple of months before the hardback came out, I suspect they'd find a lot of takers for something like the next Stephen King novel.

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by murg

I think that the use of music and movies as examples is to show that there are other avenues for entertainment that provide far more value than books.



Is this apples and oranges? Are these US, UK or global sales figures? What is the population/market differences?

HPatHBP was also the sixth book of a very popular series, not standalone books, or the first of a series (not that they know this when first published).

Not really apples and oranges. We are talking the top selling novel in a given year. The point is to show how much the market for books has changed over the years. Novels in the 70's were still being published first in serial format in magazines, which is how many authors made their money. Actual books sales were just gravy. Some of these writers are still active.

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Absolutely. Baen, for example, have sold high-priced ARCs ("Advance Reader Copy") version of their ebooks for years, based on the principle that there are always people who are willing to pay more (a lot more, in Baen's case) to read the book "now", rather than waiting a few months for the lower-priced edition. Hardbacks are just the same.

Jim Baen was brilliant when it came to exploring new avenues for parting SF&F fans from their money. He pioneered a lot of concepts that made Baen publishing one of the few publishing houses where people actually were loyal to the publisher rather than just the author. He truly understood how to engage a fan base and keep that fan base engaged. His snippet campaigns really were inspired.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

But as we know, that's asinine. The reason the hardcover is more expensive than the paperback is the container.

As all here know this is not the case.

[murg]

Originally Posted by pwalker8

Not really apples and oranges. We are talking the top selling novel in a given year. The point is to show how much the market for books has changed over the years. Novels in the 70's were still being published first in serial format in magazines, which is how many authors made their money. Actual books sales were just gravy. Some of these writers are still active.

Regardless of them being the top selling novel for a year, you are comparing the sales of three books. They are from Germany, the US, and the UK over a period of approx. 80 years.

You are comparing two stand alone books versus the sixth in a very popular series. These may have been (the earlier books) years in which there was no standout top seller.

To my mind, this comprises an apples and oranges comparison.

[crane3]

Originally Posted by tompe

As all here know this is not the case.

Usually tho. There is a difference in how much paper is used & perhaps ink as the mass market version use smaller fonts.

Now, there are also the hardback sized paperbacks which I buy; think that I had seen a ref to them as publishers' copies/size? Still easier on my eyes prior to my cataract surgery.

But getting the hardback at B&N at the closeout(?) prices is good as the hardback's price is lower than the mass products (paperbacks). Or even getting them at a place that sells the hardbacks at a very low price as their main sales are with the used CDs/DVDs.

Recently picked up "Torch of Freedom" & "Honor of the Clan" for $2.99 each for the hardbacks.

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by pwalker8

I don't think you quite understand the concept of advances. Advances are just that, an advance on the projected sales. A publisher who over estimates the advance on a regular basis tends to go out of business. I don't find it terribly surprising that an author who has established that people will buy their books are able to command higher advances. I think that this is something that is true from both authors who started via the normal publishing route as well as those who start via the indie route. I will note that for a true indie author, i.e. one who isn't using a publisher, the idea of an advance does not apply since there is no one to pay the advance. It's only indies who decide to move over to the publisher world who get advances.

I think you have completely missed fjtorres' point...