Marvin Free Edition for iPhone and iPod touch

[Philantrop]

Originally Posted by Faterson

I shudder to think what Wulf will have to say about this when he finds out

Hah! Writhing in fear already? That's how it should be ALL the time! ;-)

Joking aside, I have mixed feelings about this (and Kris knows that) but I think it's the least evil Kris could do.

Ultimately, all our opinions are pretty much irrelevant, though. Time and users will tell if this move backfires or if it will turn out to be a door opener for new Marvin users. I'm confident the latter will be the case.

[Faterson]

Originally Posted by Faterson

I don't think that "Publisher's formatting" is suitable for reading. It's good for "reference" purposes, as I see it. Moon+ Reader Pro (on Android) calls that mode more appropriately: Preview Mode.

Originally Posted by At_Libitum

I disagree wholeheartedly.

That is your right, but the prerogative of high-quality e-reader software like Marvin is, precisely, that it allows every reader to be his/her own publisher.

You are willing to relinquish that greatest privilege of e-book users and, instead, in the old-fashioned way usual in the world of printed books, are willing to submit 100% to the frequently wacky ideas on the part of publishers as to how exactly a book should be laid out and presented to you. In other words, you choose submission over freedom -- and that is your holy right. Your use of e-reader software, though, is then in a sense redundant; you might just as well fire up a regular web browser and read books in its full-screen mode.

[At_Libitum]

Originally Posted by kguil

I might be misunderstanding. By default, Marvin opens books using Marvin's layout settings. You can optionally switch to publisher settings (you're not forced to choose) if you like and this is stored on a per book basis. I never, ever use publisher settings myself. I actually dislike it but many people asked for it (to be fair, it's also good for "debugging" badly formatted books).

I don't know whether it opens them by default this way.
I've been switching so much back and forth between Sigil and various eReaders that I have not payed attention to what it opens with.
If 'Marvin formatting' is your preferred view it would indeed not be 'forcing', but if the original style included in the book is your preferred way of viewing a book but only want to change one aspect than that is not possible because switching to 'Marvin formatting' usually changes more than just that one aspect (or two)

I don't understand the reasoning behind restyling or ignoring included css in an ebook. Not saying Marvin completely ignores it but by always applying the configured font and margin size (the latter of which adds to the one specified in the book instead of replacing) , I cannot see if everything in the book is formatted as was intended. I expect an eReader to honour the included CSS. For instance, if a book has explicitly parts justified different from what the norm is for that book, e.g. a fully justified book with several parts deliberately left-aligned, than this difference is done away with by changing to 'Marvin formatting' if I have specify also justified in Marvin. Because Marvin overrules an explicit left-alignment but still honors centering and right-alignment.

[At_Libitum]

Originally Posted by Faterson

That is your right, but the prerogative of high-quality e-reader software like Marvin is, precisely, that it allows every reader to be his/her own publisher.

You go right ahead being your own publisher but don't forget those that don't want to or feel 'forced' to become one. Lot's of folks also don't go around restyling the whole of the internet just because the browser allows it...
I mean, why would I want to change the layout and style of a high-quality (;p they _do_ exist) eBook?

[KamranMackey]

Originally Posted by kguil

@Kretzer - The descriptions are the same. However, in neither of the descriptions there's a reference to how many books the library can contain.

Apple have very strict rules about how you can describe "free" and "lite" versions of apps both within it and in the app store description. Describing apps in terms of their limitations compared to a "full" version is frowned upon.

@Faterson - I'm sorry you see the limitation as being so crippling that you wouldn't recommend it. I think it is perfect for (a) people who want to try M out before buying the full version (something *many* people asked for here on MR and elsewhere), or (b) just want to keep one book with them on the go.

Kris, I love your idea of Marvin free.

Originally Posted by Faterson

I apologise, but that's ridiculous. I would instantly delete any e-reader app from my iPhone that behaved in this way. I've seen many apps that are seriously crippled in their free versions, but this would take the crown.

I am afraid this may seriously hurt Marvin's reputation. I mean, how are users expected to test all the Library sorting options in Marvin Free, when there is basically no Library in Marvin Free? And just because 1 book displays fine, I'm supposed to delete it before checking if another book also displays fine? And I can't compare the display of various books in quick succession? Those are absolute basics, to me, before I even start using an e-reader app.

100% worthless app in this setup, imo. Sorry, Kris. That would be a clear-cut 1-star review if I bothered to review it (but I won't).

Faterson, read the quote above your quote. Kris says who the app is perfect for. Me personally wouldn't use the Free version, but that's because I already have the paid version for iPhone.

[Faterson]

Originally Posted by At_Libitum

I expect an eReader to honour the included CSS.

I believe Marvin respects it, apart from exceptions, which are bugs or Kris's strategic decisions that should be ironed out in future (for example, by making specific elements of CSS configurable on an on/off-switch basis -- again, Moon+ Pro employs this principle nicely on Android).

Your example of the varying alignment is a very good one. If 2 various alignments are specified in the e-book's source code (default and 1 non-default alignment), then Marvin should (perhaps optionally) respect that and display 2 various alignments in "Marvin's formatting", too. It's the perfect analogy to respecting publisher-specified (as opposed to default!) font and background colours (= GitHub #99).

[At_Libitum]

IMO the best solution would be if every CSS related aspect that can be changed in Marving would simply have as selectable option "original" besides the values corresponding to the aspect it controls. That way there would simply be no need AT ALL for the current 'modes'

Instead any changes you make then, could be made a choice between "Use for all books" or "Use only for this book"

[kguil]

@At_Libitum
In many, many cases Marvin's formatting honours most of the publisher's settings very well. The only two cases I can think of where it doesn't are colours (since they're overridden when applying a theme) and embedded fonts. I'm working on improving both aspects.

Also, in several cases, M doesn't add to the specified margin - it tries to detect and replace it. Unfortunately, there are so many exceptions and differences in how EPUBs are built that it will take more refinement to cover every edge case.

I very much welcome having a look at any book you might have where M falls short to improve fidelity.

[KamranMackey]

for the Free version of Marvin, Kris.

[kguil]

@KamranMackey Thank you.

[chilady1]

Kris - I think it is terrific that you are offering Marvin for iPhone for free in whatever version you have released it. This gives a lot more people an opportunity to try Marvin before buying although I have to say, the $4.99 I spent in Marvin for iPhone was $$$ we'll spent especially in light of the fact Marvin for iPad is FREE!

[ParadiseLost]

I would just like to echo what i said earlier and thank chilady for repeating it. I applaud your efforts to give people a chance to try it. Remember, that marvin for ipad is still completely free, which is where a vast majority are going to be using it. Offering a free version to those who are using an iphone is above and beyond what i feel most independent authors would bother with. Thanks again for your efforts Kris

Oh yeah and having visited Dear Author... i see what you did there

Great job Kris

[Apocalypto]

The library features are very important to me (and in some ways I still prefer the Stanza way) but it's kind of ridiculous to complain about limitations on what is essentially a trial version. Even with a one book limit it should be obvious that it's worth the full price and then it doesn't matter. I would have been tempted to put a big banner ad above the app display instead and leave the rest of the app intact, that way it's annoying enough any serious reader would pay to get rid of it and he'd make something from people who don't pay.

It's unfortunate that people have been conditioned to believe $5 is a lot to spend on software when really it's very inexpensive. It probably doesn't help that iPhone users are charged while iPad users aren't (which might lead to expectations the iPhone app will go free too), but that's another thread and ultimately Kris's decision.

[Kretzer]

Yeah, it's a sad fact that limited versions are, well, limited in some ways ...

For me the reading experience within the book is the most important aspect, and the free version lets you try out all of that. Still the library functions are an important part, too. I think it might have been better to allow three books in the library to show all the brilliant features. The unlimited loading doesn't really make sense to me, because there is not much use in hundreds of invisible books ... if Kris hadn't told me I would never have tried to get the second book to show up by deleting the first.

I'll never fully understand hoe people can whine about the price for really useful software that equals the price of a beer (depending where you live ...). But it's true, Apocalypto, by App Store standards anything above 2$ is expensive, and people got used to that. At least three quarters of the apps are free, I would guess - even if many rip you off with stupid in-app purchases afterward (but that again is an entirely different story, and I know Kris defintely did not want to follow that path. ).

[kguil]

Most people I speak to are more concerned about the risk of wasting money rather than actually spending it. I think the free version addresses this need. If yesterday's download numbers are any indication, they're amongst the highest I've seen without a mention of it (the free version) in the press.

I'd like to thank everyone again for your input. I wouldn't have released a free version if not for the feedback I got here on MR.