This is why Amazon is going to win

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by EowynCarter

True.
Then woudn't sony, amazon and all have intrest in getting stuff to move ? And, woudn't all of them together have some weight ?

Yes, but we have the entire history and way of doing business of the publishing industry with their heels dug in against these johnny-come-lateleys - they are fighting to maintain the status-quo.

Very like the music industry was, but maybe even a bigger showdown...

[Liviu_5]

Originally Posted by HarryT

It's not that they don't WANT you to buy their books, but that their publishing contracts do not PERMIT them to sell you some of their books. If a publisher only has a contract to sell a book in the US, then they will be in breach of contract if they sell it to you if they sell it elsewhere. That's because, legally, the "point of sale" for a digital product is the customer's location, whereas for a physical product it's the store's location. So when you buy a paper book from Amazon US, legally it's being sold in the US, but when you buy an eBook it's being sold in the UK. Yes, it's stupid, but that's the way it is at the moment, and Sony and Amazon cannot just ignore the law.

So in other words BookDepository.US breaks the law by selling UK books and being based in the US or Alibris or Abe, not to speak of Ebay resellers?

The argument above is utter bs as is; I would buy an argument based on licenses, restricted electronic stuff selling and such - but books have been sold internationally all the time - even Barnes and Noble stocks here and there "sell in UK" only books btw and I would not be surprised if Waterstones or whatever UK big chains are there stock US only books here and there.


Ebooks are not books but licenses to read on a screen - I bought some e"books" recently that start exactly like this btw stating explicitly that what I bought is the "right to read the following on a screen" - and that is the argument you should bring in justifying geographic restrictions rather than the nonsense above

[HarryT]

Alack and alas, Liviu, it is not what you or I believe that matters, but what the lawyers employed by publishers and eBook Stores agree on, and the above does currently seem to be the "state of play", rightly or wrongly.

[HappyMartin]

I am sure Amazon would love to sell me all the books I want. That is what I hope will sort out the current mess with geographic restrictions. Amazon's desire to sell more books. To get back to the topic of Amazon "winning" I believe that we need to see the emergence of a very strong mature company in order to force some sense and order into this basket case of a market. If that company is Amazon then so be it. Once some maturity comes to the market I hope that other smaller companies will be able to then get a start. No one is going to listen to Irex, no one will listen to Bookeen, after all they seem to listen to no one them selves.

Perhaps if Amazon with all their clout is able to get this log jam moving we can all get on with our lives and simply buy what books we want when we want and then read them as we want. Seems simple really.

[Liviu_5]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Alack and alas, Liviu, it is not what you or I believe that matters, but what the lawyers employed by publishers and eBook Stores agree on, and the above does currently seem to be the "state of play", rightly or wrongly.

I do not disagree with you - however the argument with point of sales is bs since the Book Depository sells happily US *and* UK books from whatever location they have; there is no such a thing as BD.uk selling only UK editions or BD.com selling only US editions;

My post is that this point of sale argument is nonsense; we just have to accept that ebooks are different so different rules apply (sell of license instead of sell of product, arbitrary geographical restrictions...) but arguing that Amazon sellsbooks to the UK but not ebooks because of point of sale is ludicrous.

[Liviu_5]

Check these two listings both from BD.uk:

http://www.bookdepository.co.uk/book...Under-the-Dome

http://www.bookdepository.co.uk/book...Under-the-Dome

If the p.o. sales argument were valid one of these listings would be "illegal"

As a funny fact Amazon.com has both editions (UK and US) for sale too, but the Uk is marked as "collector" and with the wrong publisher (the ISBN shows clearly is the UK edition) and sold at a higher price; maybe someone should point to them the inconsistency in how they treat books vs ebooks as point of sale goes...

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by Liviu_5

Check these two listings both from BD.uk:

http://www.bookdepository.co.uk/book...Under-the-Dome

http://www.bookdepository.co.uk/book...Under-the-Dome

If the p.o. sales argument were valid one of these listings would be "illegal"

As a funny fact Amazon.com has both editions (UK and US) for sale too, but the Uk is marked as "collector" and with the wrong publisher (the ISBN shows clearly is the UK edition) and sold at a higher price; maybe someone should point to them the inconsistency in how they treat books vs ebooks as point of sale goes...

Or perhaps they have a different contract with the publisher or maybe they ARE illegal. Seems like a number of outlets were selling anywhere, anytime but have recently implemented the restrictions. Perhaps This one hasn't gotten in line yet?


Wait, I thought you were referring to Ebooks, that's a pbook, different deal, different contract as was indicated above.

[javajoe96]

Originally Posted by HarryT

I think, personally, that to talk about a single "winner" is rather odd. There's pretty much no area of the market that only has a single player in it. The eBook market will probably shake down to a few big players, and a number of smaller providers with more specialist offerings, but there's really no reason at all to suppose that there will be any one single "winner".

There's absolutely no reason that someone can't launch an ePub-based Reader with an online bookstore and wireless delivery.

Wait, they are, it is called the Barnes and Noble Nook.

ePub and wireless delivery and purchasing from their online store

[javajoe96]

Originally Posted by Grauheim

Well, Kenny, actually Apple has won the online music market.

Don't get me wrong - I personally do like ePub and openness, and that's why I bought my Opus. If I were buying a new reader today, I'd probably still get an Opus. But I'm not a typical consumer (and nor are most of you.) All of the computer-level fussing that's required to use a device like the Opus is well beyond what the typical person is willing or able to deal with.

Yes, sure, someone else can duplicate Amazon's set-up. Maybe Sony will get there eventually, but ironically, where I'm sitting at work, I can't even contact the Sony bookstore because their software isn't capable of navigating my proxy. So they have some distance to go.

Apple does in deed dominate the online music purchases but it does have it negatives. Just as you mentioned the negative you face in regards to the Sony online book store not working with your proxy, Apple also has them with itunes. I dislike their proprietary software and I do not like having to download and install it to really listen to or buy music. While having to use a proprietary software to buy the items is not that big a deal in and of itself, after all Sony makes you do this to buy books. The itunes software installs extra services and such that run on in the background, which I have enough of already. I do not have an ipod, I just want mp3s. That is why in general I only purchase mp3s from Amazon where I can search, listen to and buy on my web browser. It does require you to install a downloader to go grab the mp3s files but it is unintrusive and you never see it again unless you buy more music.

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by javajoe96

.... I do not have an ipod, I just want mp3s. That is why in general I only purchase mp3s from Amazon where I can search, listen to and buy on my web browser. It does require you to install a downloader to go grab the mp3s files but it is unintrusive and you never see it again unless you buy more music.

Yep. That's exactly what I do, then I can play my mp3 on my phillips MP3 GoGear player, on my netbook, on my computer or through my stereo.

[delphidb96]

Originally Posted by javajoe96

Wait, they are, it is called the Barnes and Noble Nook.

ePub and wireless delivery and purchasing from their online store

Quite true. And if I hadn't *JUST* lucked into a buy-broken-on-eBay-and-get-WARRANTEED-replacement-for-free of a Kindle 2, I'd be looking to buy a Nook. But I done did got my $38 Kindle 2 (replacement arrived today!) and I'm quite happy with it. Plus I can upload all my mobi/prc ebooks without major hassle (of which I have over 7,000) so my need for an ePub solution is "not that dire".

What really makes me happy is that I'm currently reading a very NIFTY book on Adobe Photoshop Layers on my Kindle - one which I've not found in ePub or regular Mobi format. Yay!

So, yes, all of this, the selection, the ease of purchase, the really, really GREAT warranty service shows why Amazon will probably continue to dominate the ebook market.

Derek

[jasonkchapman]

Originally Posted by kennyc

Yep. That's exactly what I do, then I can play my mp3 on my phillips MP3 GoGear player, on my netbook, on my computer or through my stereo.

Except that MP3s generally sound like crap to me--regardless of the bit rate. They're always either way too hot or flat as a board. Give me Ogg or give me...well, FLAC is cool. I can oggdrop those.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by javajoe96

Wait, they are, it is called the Barnes and Noble Nook.

ePub and wireless delivery and purchasing from their online store

IF you happen to live in the US. 95% of people on this planet do not .

[neilmarr]

***IF you happen to live in the US. 95% of people on this planet do not***

A fact all too often overlooked, Harry.

By the way -- and I know I've said this before -- the Kindle store locks out all publishers without a US presence: so it's not purely a contractual issue. My own UK-registered house, for instance, has international agreements for all rights with about 150 authors, but Amazon dropped the ebook versions of all our titles when Kindle Store opened. They say they have 'no plans' to change this policy. It's ironic when you consider that around half our authors are US citizens.

Hoots. Neil

[Sonist]

Originally Posted by neilmarr

... -- the Kindle store locks out all publishers without a US presence: so it's not purely a contractual issue. My own UK-registered house, for instance, has international agreements for all rights with about 150 authors, but Amazon dropped the ebook versions of all our titles when Kindle Store opened....

Maybe Bezos had bad service at Heathrow....

Bur more likely, it has to do with rights and liability, and indemnification, and venue issues.