01-06-2008, 11:18 PM | #46 | ||
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As I see it, shousa, the definition of "average consumer" is very relevant to the discussion of what sort of device is appropriate for him.
You defined an "average reader" as: Quote:
In order to have much of a productive discussion on any given topic, the terms of that discussion have to be agreed on by those in the discussion. Given the way you've defined your "average consumer" the only answer to the question you posed would be the one you offered in the first place: there is no e-reading device suitable for the "average consumer" as you define him. However, that doesn't make for a very lively discussion (and discussion is kinda what we do here :wink2), so we're trying to find a definition that is, perhaps, a bit more representative, so that there can be an actual, somewhat real-world related discussion of the question you raised: are present e-book devices so unapproachable that they're doomed to failure? You can declare that semantics if you choose, I just consider it to be defining the terms of the discussion. Quote:
You also seem to think that e-books are inevitably doomed because you can't get just any title you want in them. There are also new, current titles that can't be gotten at Barnes & Noble or Borders, that single fact alone doesn't mean that paper books are inherently doomed. That's not semantics, that's analytical consideration of the argument you advanced. If you want to point out that the selection of e-books still lags the selection of paper books at your typical retailer, well pretty much anyone who's awake will agree that is true. If you want to make an argument that this is detrimental to e-books in general, most would agree with you there too. I just don't think it's reasonable to try and make the availability, or lack thereof, of any specific book, or even of a majority of books, into some sort of success/failure litmus test for the entire e-book reader industry. Your initial post was indeed clearly phrased as a challenge, and there's certainly no reason not to have such challenges, but even a challenge can be handled respectfully. |
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01-06-2008, 11:53 PM | #47 |
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Fair enough Natch.....apologies to all.
One point though: - I do not know many people who do rip CDs (anecdotal not statistical evidence I know) and there may be large areas of the book market IMHO (however it is defined) who would not go thru a conversion process for their books and with CDs they do not need to this - just put in the CD player and play. Last edited by shousa; 01-06-2008 at 11:59 PM. |
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01-07-2008, 02:48 AM | #48 |
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For me, the important question to ask is not "can I get any book that I want as an e-Book", but rather "are there enough e-Books that interest me to make it worth my while to buy an e-Book reader", and for me personally, the answer is unequivocably "yes".
I know that public domain books don't interest you, but my special interest is 19th century novels and the particular benefit of an eBook reader for me is that I can get hold of thousands of 19th century books as eBooks which are virtually impossible to find as printed books. For example, I can read the entire works of Rider Haggard as eBooks, whereas it's virtually impossible to find anything except "King Solomon's Mines" and "She" in any current printed book. We all have to look at our individual interests and make our own decision. |
01-07-2008, 03:07 AM | #49 | |
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Quote:
BTW I am actually interested in public domain books, it is also impossible to get many ancient roman and greek texts any other way. A good way is also to copy text from a website (assuming legally OK one to do) and put that as an "ebook" as well. |
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01-07-2008, 10:00 AM | #50 |
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01-07-2008, 10:23 AM | #51 | ||
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Back when I was a kid, we didn't have this fancy order-any-book-ever-printed from amazon.com, and get it in 2 days stuff. We had one book store that stocked the books the owner liked, and we had to pick from those books...and we liked it that way. Today's availability of ebooks far outstrips the local library or the small book store, but there are still some books that are not available that way. As a teacher, I used to need to carry 40 books, so I only grabbed the 5-7 that I needed the most, and spent half the day not having the books I needed. Now, I can get 30 of my 40 books in digital format, I rip another 7, and have 3 paper books for the semester. My eBook is indispensable. Quote:
Andy |
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01-07-2008, 10:48 AM | #52 | |
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Quote:
Certainly, the same thing applies to e-books, I'll usually choose the simplest path that fits my requirements. I tend to run my Baen titles through BookDesigner rather than just reading them as RTFs. But I don't do any TOCs or any fancy stuff with them -- the extra responsiveness and the in-line pix are worth the extra step to me, but if I don't have to take that extra step to get what I want/need then I won't do it. Case in point, if a book is one I'm pretty sure I'll only read once, I'm fairly likely to just get it from Sony's store, and accept that there's a fair chance that it'll be lost to me at some point in the future. That trade-off is worth the decrease in hassle to me. I think that tendency to go with the simpler path is fairly universal amongst mankind. |
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01-07-2008, 11:42 AM | #53 | |
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The books situation is similar, and will impact readers similarly. Some people will find all the books they want to read available for dedicated readers, some will find hardly any, and some will find a significant portion. The latter two groups will therefore supplement what they can easily find with e-books they have to work harder to find, or have to convert themselves. There will be a wide variety of people who will range from minor effort to major effort in getting what they want, or just decide not to bother at all. That's why it's good to have choices, not only in dedicated readers, but in non-dedicated hardware that may be better suited for your needs, like a laptop, UMPC, handheld, smartphone, etc. I may never own a dedicated reader, but if my PDA satisfies my need to read e-books, that's okay. |
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01-07-2008, 11:26 PM | #54 | |
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I'm not likely to spend time digitizing old LPs, but I'm more conscious of the changes that can creep in with remastering. |
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01-08-2008, 06:45 AM | #55 |
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Good point. I've heard the same thing, heightened bass lines, altered channel levels and backgrounds, etc. It's annoying and frustrating if you know the original music. (For the record, I also don't need most of the "bonus tracks" layered onto CDs, usually rejected tracks of songs that are already there.)
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01-08-2008, 02:20 PM | #56 |
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Book selection is a big problem when it comes to wider acceptance of ebooks.
I know people who are avid reader and would love an ebook reader, but they read mostly modern pop. lit. or the newest bio or other non-fiction. Items that are sorely lacking from the ebook world. Ebooks are great for the lovers of classic lit and genre work or technically inclined readers like myself who search for digital copied of the books on their shelfs. I purchased my Sony PRS-500 because I took part in a deal. Otherwise, at the price, I would have stayed with my PDA. Though, after having it for months now, my PDA does not compare. I started buying ebooks for my PDA because of the convinience of carrying a few books in my pocket, especially when traveling and daily commuting. My interest in finding books i wanted to read took me to some of the smaller shops where I found DRMed and non DRM titles. But I'm not an "average" book consumer because I'm a techie. I believe the average book consumer will need everything easily handed to them before they'll accept ebooks into their everyday lives. I'm not looking down on anyone but I believe thats how the average consumer works. Thats why itunes worked so well. It also worked well because it had a wide selection of what was popular and mainstream. I couldn't buy the death metal i listen to but I could buy the Spanish pop or the lastest from Ms. Spears and those consumers outnumbered me. I also try to avoid DRM unless i'm desperate, but I'm not sure if the average consumer really cares about DRM. Is it really a concern for anyone who's not "other than average"? A device like the Kindle, that is, a device that tried to be an ebook ipod, might actually work one day because, it makes things easy. I haven't had any experience with it myself. I'm going by what's I've read so far and looking at it as a non-techie. The ability to subscribe to the New York Times or The Nation peaked my interest alone. Buying books online without wifi, access to new york times best sellers, and the Amazon name don't hurt. Will the "average" consumer care that they are tied to one store for all their mainstream reading needs, news, blogs, etc... if the experience is easy and big name brand backs it up? I don't think so. But they will care about access to as many mainstream books as possible. DRM or no, are we really that far off? |
01-08-2008, 04:24 PM | #57 | |
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It's the chicken-and-egg problem: You need e-books to make e-book readers viable... you need e-book readers to make e-books viable. But to convert every book that's not already in electronic form (because now we know, publishers created electronic files for printing, but they generally deleted them once the print run was done)... that would take a gargantuan, multi-national, probably government-overseen effort. We already know that if we wait until the publishers do it themselves, it'll never get done. So, how to accomplish that? Subsidized organizations with public/private/govt oversight? New job for the Library of Congress? Project Gutenberg on uber-steroids? Until we figure out that nasty conundrum, all we can do is try for a reader that will be easy and fun to use, to get them into people's hands. You can look at this as a chicken-and-egg problem, and get stuck behind the paradox... but on the other hand, if you can provide the chicken, the egg won't be far behind, and the paradox is gone. |
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01-08-2008, 04:31 PM | #58 |
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At least we have decent reading hardware these days, so we have about half the equation licked. Now folks are just grousing about lack of selection, rather than lack of selection and lack of decent hardware!
One big step in improving e-book generation is to get the publishers to stop deleting the electronic files when they finish with them. |
01-08-2008, 04:51 PM | #59 | |
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Actually, though, I suspect that deleting new files isn't much of a problem. It's the old books that need to be made electronic, that's the rub. And until somebody either figures out how to either profit off the scan/conversion/proofing process, or get it subsidized, we're not likely to see it happen anytime soon. |
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01-08-2008, 04:55 PM | #60 |
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They should go out to the darknet to get them (obviously not everything is there, but a lot more than is out from legit sources), then they'll just need to clean them up, but the scanning's all done for them.
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