06-09-2020, 06:09 PM | #46 | ||||
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Scanning isn't at issue. Distribution is the violation. Since IA apologists keep referring to it: Look to google, they scanned a zillion books but distributed none. Nothing that tbey did reduced sales. Libraries like Hathitrust aren't scanning just any random book from Barnes and Noble: they are scanning historically significant rare books for *academic* purposes and internal use to prevent degradation of the originals. One more time: there are four tests for fair use. (see below). One is whether there is market damage. A second is the *purpose*. Haithrust and other scanning universities are doing no market damage for their books because there is no market to damage. And their purpose is academic study and preservation. That has been found in court to be fair use. https://news.cornell.edu/stories/201...copyright-suit Quote:
These tests come from the US courts, precedents going back decades, not random self-proclaimed blog "experts". Try *this* random internetblov piece, before accepting any random opinion that just happens to meet your preferences: https://www.perceptualedge.com/blog/?p=2464 Quote:
Or to paraphrase the TV ADS, there's lots of folks out there who aren't doctors but play one on the internet. Doesn't make their word mean anything. We're discussing a copyright lawsuit: how about citing an actual US Judge with a background in copyright? Or at least the Stanford Law School library: https://fairuse.stanford.edu/overvie.../four-factors/ Quote:
That is four failures. No valid defense. Last edited by fjtorres; 06-09-2020 at 06:16 PM. |
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06-10-2020, 09:56 AM | #47 |
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Yes, but they did it in a very gentile nature. In their view, they didn't "perform violence against" the antitrust laws, they quietly smothered them with bags of cash. 'Nothing to see here, carry on'.
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06-10-2020, 10:18 AM | #48 | |
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The conspiracy was clumsy, ill-considered, and ultimately futile and ended costing them and Apple close to a billion. Afterwards, with Agency Part Deux they got what they wanted, legally, and all it's cost them is half their ebook market share. Still ill-considered and futile, but legal. Bezos appreciates their efforts to kill his competition. |
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06-11-2020, 07:07 AM | #49 | |
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06-12-2020, 11:36 AM | #50 | |
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IA is shutting down their unlimited operation but they're keeping the "limited" distribution of unlicensed books.
https://the-digital-reader.com/2020/...o-weeks-early/ And they're still pretending they're a real library. Quote:
As if an outbreak nullifies all copyright. |
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06-12-2020, 12:37 PM | #51 |
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It is a sensible response.
They were going to lose the lawsuit, as it stood. Now they probably will, but it is no longer a slam dunk, especially if it is a jury trial. They make be able to persuade people that "1 pBook = 1 eBook loan" is reasonable. The publishers didn't sue until the recent changes, and part of that may have been that they were afraid they might lose. We might see the suit dropped, or some sort of compromise reached. |
06-12-2020, 02:52 PM | #52 | |
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Also, the violation is still "distributing unlicensed content, in whole". The amount of content has nothing to do with innocence, only the punishment. And owning a print copy of the content does not convey a distribution license. If they think throttling back is going to save them they're really out of touch with reality. |
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06-12-2020, 03:13 PM | #53 | ||
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If the publishers could have got this outcome just by threatening a lawsuit, rather than actually filing one, I don't think they would be filing now. |
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06-12-2020, 05:04 PM | #54 | |
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06-13-2020, 05:21 PM | #55 |
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They always have.
Their National Emergency Library simply didn't use Controlled Digital Lending, but the books were still DRMed. QuestionCopyright.org posted an article on "Why the Internet Archive’s National Emergency Library is a Good Idea." Last edited by Geremia; 06-13-2020 at 05:25 PM. |
06-13-2020, 05:41 PM | #56 | |
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2- Who did they pay for the ebook lending licenses? |
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06-13-2020, 06:34 PM | #57 |
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My understanding is that they have physical copies, and until the pandemic, they were loaning 1 digital copy for 1 physical copy.
I know there have been battles around format shifting-- e.g. for accessibility for blind readers. I don't know how these have turned out. |
06-14-2020, 06:30 AM | #58 | |
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But it has long been established in US courts that print books and ebooks are not the same product. The publishers themselves have to acquire the rights to each edition *separately*. Old contracts that don't explicitly name digital rights were found to not cover ebooks, only print. With that principle in mind, owning a print edition conveys zero rights over digital editions. (If publishers have to pay the copyright owner separately for the right to distribute digital edition, why wouldn't IA have to also pay separately? Paying for one print copy is not buying the right to distribute ebook copies.) It's obfuscation plain and simple, intended to wave off their law-breaking. Books are no different from other forms of mecia and owning a VCR tape conveys no rights to distribute DVDs, BluRays, or digital copies. Look at Disk sales that do offer downloads and note they sell versions with and witbout and without is always cheaper. Legal digital isn't free. They aren't the same product and scanning and ocr'ing a print book is not the same thing as converting a Wordstar file to Word or html. The latter is true format shifting, the former isn't. Rather it's the digital equivalent of making photocopies of a book and distributing those willy nilly, which would never pass legal muster. Neither will the IA lending scheme. Last edited by fjtorres; 06-14-2020 at 06:44 AM. |
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06-14-2020, 08:54 AM | #59 |
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PDFs from scans, even if OCR added, ARE simply digital photocopies. No real library scans or photocopies any physical book still in copyright to loan it. If they do eBooks at all, they licence an appropriate quantity. It need not be one. Fair use involves only photocopying or scanning a portion. I expect the Google case to be reopened once it's obvious to rights holders and publishers that Google over time is sharing copies of the entirety of everything they scan and monetising it via search without a cent in royalties.
Most serious photocopiers are now actually computer scanners and laser printers in a box with a computer. Purely analogue photocopiers, even the dry toner kind, are candidates for museums. You can't buy a DVD and offer digital loans without a per loan royalty and/or a contract with the rights holder. Same with ebooks. It's not remotely the same as buying a CD, DVD, ebook and changing the format for your own gadget, even in countries where that is technically illegal due to DRM circumvention, no individual would be sued for personal use. But websites or operators "sharing" digital copies by any means and any conversion have always been successfully prosecuted or sued. It's only the level of damages that's ever in contention. Last edited by Quoth; 06-14-2020 at 08:57 AM. |
06-14-2020, 02:42 PM | #60 |
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Ah, so they are liable because the law is even more of an ass...
I haven't used their lending services, but similar services would help a lot of us who don't have local libraries, or can't use them due to disabilities. P.S. Yes, I contacted the county library last January, I haven't heard back. I contacted the county disability services today. Last edited by MarjaE; 06-14-2020 at 02:50 PM. |
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