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#46 | |
Snoozing in the sun
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astrangerhere mentioned Floss, and the strong bond between man and dog. I noted down the section (Chapter 24 in Winter) where Rebanks wrote about training Floss, and the enjoyment the dog has in her work.
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When I got the book down from the shelf and started reading it, I realised that the setting was the same. Holme lived and set her books in Westmorland, which in the 1970s was combined with Cumberland to become Cumbria. While the story was a bit melodramatic, the section I remembered, which took place at a sheepdog trial, was very good indeed. |
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#47 | ||
cacoethes scribendi
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Yep, I had farm toys too, but I didn't end up farming, nor (as the examples may be) driving trucks or flying planes. I had a toy kangaroo and now live on a bush block I share with many 'roos - maybe that counts. ![]() And unless these expensive sheep are embryos on ice, waiting to be raised when the children are grown, then I see this sort of as a convenient fiction: a way to help the children feel involved in the farm. (Let's face it, his 3yo son is not ready to make life and death decisions regarding his own flock.) It's a good thing for the kids, but it's even better for the father: he gets happier kids and he gets to justify his own pick of expensive sheep that he wants in his flock. All I really mean is that these are nice family-life images (albeit not from the book), but they don't actually offer much in the way of predictive value. The daughter that likes to cook might end up a chemist. In my experience the fact that the author tells us he knew exactly what he wanted at 13yo, and that wish remained static throughout his life, is more the exception than the rule these days, a late hang-over, perhaps, from the relative isolation of the district and the long standing male hegemony - especially of his own family. Quote:
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#48 | |
(he/him/his)
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(There are LOTS of examples, but this is one of the better runs I remember, and a beautiful dog indeed. ) |
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#49 |
Snoozing in the sun
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I loved this! Thanks Charlie!
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#50 | |
o saeclum infacetum
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I have two instincts at war with each other.
![]() A fixed philosophy for me is that the book is the book and outside information is irrelevant. On the other hand, especially with non-fiction, extraneous matter adds to the interest and certainly to the discussion! Quote:
I'm not saying that Rebanks doesn't love and cherish all his children equally and want each to reach his or her full potential. He's a modern father. But based on the evidence of the book, which for me slants terribly in the direction of the male tradition and lineage especially given his unalloyed worship of his grandfather, I can help wondering to what extent a thousand mild influences and prejudices, even unwitting, have led his kids to express their preferences which just happen to be in line with the Salic law. I don't have an issue with someone's choosing to be a traditional farmwife (or a much less traditional farmhusband ![]() Still, this doesn't matter much. I don't have to like an author to find his memoir compelling. This one didn't reach that level for me; it was full of interest but it was pedestrian in the telling, to me, and lacked the level of self-awareness I like to find. |
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#51 | ||||
cacoethes scribendi
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For example I've been sitting on the what I post below, not really sure whether I should air this. issybird you speak of instincts at war with each other, and for me the idea of offering what seems such personal criticism feels wrong to me, a literary critique should not be personal, but how can we possibly discuss reactions to a memoir like this without getting personal? What follows relates to what you were saying about a lack of self-awareness, and I think that is probably at the core of what irks me about this book; the constant stream of contradictions that he doesn't seem to recognise. Quote from the book: Quote:
My guess is that it was more likely the Lake District tourist had asked the question, than he had; he seemed to show no interest at all in Oxford or its inhabitants. I get the impression the author has never been a tourist anywhere; to be somewhere (other than home) simply to watch and wonder. Do this and he might better understand those that are invade his home lands. And this surprised me: Quote:
It seemed yet another self-contradiction in the book. He professes a love of the landscape, supposedly inherited from his grandfather and father, and yet never explored the fells for their own sake? No wonder they cannot understand the intruders (tourists). So when we get statements like: Quote:
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#52 | |
(he/him/his)
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#53 | |
Professor of Law
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I think that is the point he might have been trying to make - that these people are living on land that has been sustained for hundreds of years by people who have very little education beyond the dirt on their hands. I don't truck with praising ignorance, but I also don't truck with the notion that intelligence means the same thing for everyone. I am sure that this underpinned his writing, whether he meant it or not. Either way, I am really glad to see such thoughtful discussion of the book ![]() |
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#54 | |||
Wizard
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Yes - I cringed when he swigged from the carton, and I frequently felt lectured. Quote:
So well said! I had many of the same perspectives and feelings reading the book. A lightbulb went on for me in your earlier post, when you described the dynamic of the three generations of men as extreme isolationism. One of the many times it struck me was when he talked about outsiders not traveling to their area until 1750, with the advent of roads and railways. “I’d be annoyed to discover that no one from the outside seems to have thought it beautiful or a place to visit until then....” It surprised me that anyone could feel personally slighted by a major transformation in cultural and industrial history 250 years earlier, which had altered the live and fortune of almost every person alive in the country. I know it’s not fair for me to give too much weight to any one passage. But the impression I got from reading the full book was a world view characterized by “us against the world”. I didn’t strike me as just a reflection of a general Northern attitude towards outsiders, or even the smaller enclave of shepherds. It seemed personal and familial. Like the rest of us, Rebanks is a work in progress. My guess is that he was a very bright boy who, sadly, felt that an interest in school, books, and the outside world was a personal betrayal of his grandfather and father. Maybe, as you point out, joy, leisure, exploration and beauty were also verboten. He’s still squirming on that hook, and projects it outward, probably unintentionally. Though I didn’t appreciate the lecturing tone, I do admire how he’s harnessed his life energy for good. Quote:
It is a thoughtful discussion, and I really appreciate being introduced to the book, and learning about James Rebanks and the the world he’s writing about and fighting to save. Thank you! Last edited by Victoria; 09-18-2019 at 10:33 PM. |
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#55 |
cacoethes scribendi
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I do find the disparate reactions intriguing. I cannot see it as a glorification of "other" because the narrator is not talking about "other" but of "self". Time and again through this book we find the author rejecting "other". And he doesn't even seem to realise that a lot of the "other" he's rejecting isn't really so different to him after all.
Last edited by gmw; 09-18-2019 at 10:35 PM. Reason: Typo |
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#56 |
Snoozing in the sun
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Disparate reactions indeed, but then, that's fairly normal for the Club!
I read this book as being about a particular place and a particular way of life. Rebanks doesn't talk much about Oxford because that's not what the book is about. That is, he is writing about life as a shepherd, not life as a student in Oxford. So yes, of course he touches on various aspects of his life, such as school, going to Oxford at a later stage, mentions UNESCO, and so on. But these parts of his life aren't what the book is about. I don't think it is reasonable to berate him or call him blindly ignorant to other ways of life because he doesn't write about them. They aren't a part of his life as a shepherd. As for astrangerhere's reference to the "other", I interpreted her as referring to another way of life from the way of life of the vast majority of us, living in cities, getting our food (wrapped in plastic) from the supermarket, and so on. That for me was certainly the real interest and enjoyment in this book: showing me something of a very different way of life from the one I know. While I don't like Rebanks' writing style, I did find the content interesting. I do agree with issybird's comments about the lives of the women, but while it isn't a life I would like, it could well suit Mrs Rebanks down to the ground, which is fine. The conservative attitudes and the way in which the women seemed to be second-class citizens didn't really surprise me. So in summary, I think I enjoyed the book more than several members did, though I did find his style (or lack of it) an irritation. |
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#57 |
Wizard
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Thanks Charlie - I thoroughly enjoyed that. It was interesting to see how quietly the commands were given - a very smart dog.
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#58 | ||
cacoethes scribendi
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I do have some sympathy with the idea that people should spend some with the "other", it can help us to learn that difference is often not where we expected it to be. But we only learn this if we open ourselves to the experience, if we let the foreign become familiar, and the author's writing of Oxford suggests this didn't happen. |
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#59 | |
cacoethes scribendi
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It's past time that I stopped picking on the author and take up what I think could be considered the book's more interesting aspect...
How important is it that these ways of life are preserved, and to what extent, and in what form? The Wikipedia article about the Lake District Economy says "Sheep farming remains important both for the economy of the region and for preserving the landscape which visitors want to see." Rebanks made a similar observation about the sheep playing an important part of maintaining the landscape. But that's the sheep, not the shepherds or the farming lifestyle. And Wikipedia about the Herdwick sheep says "Herdwicks survive largely due to farming subsidies and the aid of the British National Trust for Places of Historic Interest or Natural Beauty." So it's costing money to keep this system going. Rebanks himself gave us this quote from Beatrix Potter: Quote:
The way things are headed, it is possible to envisage the Lake District being turned into something like this Pioneer Settlement (in Swan Hill, Victoria, Australia), where there are "attractions" and "rides and cruises" staffed by actors in fancy dress. Okay, those like the blacksmith must know something of the work, but their livelihood depends on their tourist value, their decorative skills not their practical skills. So I can imagine a future in which the shepherds exist not to earn a living as shepherds, but to earn a living as tourist attractions and as maintenance personnel for the fells. Not saying I like it, but I could see it happening ... perhaps even in the next generation. Think of the economies of scale and the possible advantages to the sheep where a large company runs things and keeps trained veterinarians on hand for professional health care. And machines like those they have in vineyards to pick grapes, but these put the rock walls back together (maybe a bit of invisible glue or mortar here and there because they will last longer and the tourists won't notice). And so on. |
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#60 |
Snoozing in the sun
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Do you know, I had a lot of fellow-feeling with Rebanks over that quote, gmw. I rather suspect that he summed up the "silver spoon" brigade pretty accurately. Everything handed to them on a plate, and no struggle or failure as they swanned through their privileged lives, sent to a public school (in the UK sense) with no expense spared, and the way made smooth for them to get into Oxford. Supported all the way by mummy and daddy, without any need to get any work to keep themselves.
Thanks for the various links you gave above. I shall certainly have a look at them. On the matter of subsidising various industries, we used to have a textile industry, car manufacturing industry and all sorts of other forms of work in Australia, which were subsidised in order to keep them going. Not a lot of it still going now. I think there is an argument for subsidising industries, not just as stage-dressing or as a theme park, but because it gives decent honest work to people who would otherwise not have it. And that of course is very true of the UK, which now has had several generations of people in the north who have no work. |
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