iRex - Misleading Advertising - Page 3

Riocaz · 03-02-2007, 08:39 AM

Because we wouldn't recover a fraction of the money spent, and why the heck should we. We have a legal right to get what we paid for.

jæd · 03-02-2007, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riocaz

Do you know how many are out there?

I'm guessing there are more than 15 - 20 Iliads out there...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riocaz

Hell do we know the answer to the last one? At the moment all we have is speculation on a throwaway comment made by Karel. We could be mis-understanding the situation entirely (which I mentioned earlier)

Yep... All these annoyed and up-tight posts over speculation. Which is why I said I think everyone's taking it a bit too seriously...

Riocaz · 03-02-2007, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jæd

I'm guessing there are more than 15 - 20 Iliads out there...

But you don't know that. It's an assumption (it's 99.9% certainly right, but it's still an assumption). And I'm sure you know the trueism about the word assume.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jæd

Yep... All these annoyed and up-tight posts over speculation. Which is why I said I think everyone's taking it a bit too seriously...

Possibly because iRex must know that people have picked up on the comment and have (yet again) failed to clarify their statement.

If the interpretation is not correct then it would have taken less than 10 seconds to clear it up.

ali · 03-02-2007, 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jæd

Why not put it on Ebay...?

Um. Because I wouldn't get 650 Euros? And because then *I* would have the obligation to provide 21h battery time to the buyer?

I notice that you are highly selective to what you answer, and what not. Looks like you ignore everything where you can't make a cheap point. Interesting. Feel like being in the defense? Out of arguments? Knowing you lost but can't admit it? Is your "I cannot read everything" not just really a "I ignore everything I don't like"? Hmmmm.... Interesting.

Your line of argument looks awfully like the stuff the Mac users responded to the Month of the Apple Bugs, which gave the rest of the world a super laugh. (For those who don't know it: The Mac community flamed the project like whatnot, essentially they claimed that the bugs where not the fault of Apple / the software vendors, but it was rather an "offense" or "Continuous Foolishness" to write about it.) You don't happen to be a Mac fan, jæd, do you?

jæd · 03-02-2007, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ali

Um. Because I wouldn't get 650 Euros? And because then *I* would have the obligation to provide 21h battery time to the buyer?

Aren't items on Ebay sold as is...? And I thought you said you needed the cash...

Quote:

Originally Posted by ali

I notice that you are highly selective to what you answer, and what not.

Because I'm at work

and I'm not paid to post... I think I mentioned I've got a Powerbook... But I don't recall the "rest of the world" having a super laugh.

vvoi666 · 03-02-2007, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jæd

Yeah... Lets all litigate and waste more of Irex's time...

you're right ... let's all shut up and let them get away with it.

i want what i was promised and what i've paid for. nothing more, nothing less.

no more excuses for irex ... they've had more than one chance to clarify things and failed.

why do you think they're going to offer a larger battery for the 'old' iliads (speculation based on the irex post)? well, i think it's because they're coming nowhere near the promised running time for the iliad in the current configuration (future software updates or not).

Riocaz · 03-02-2007, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jæd

Aren't items on Ebay sold as is...? And I thought you said you needed the cash...

No he said that 650 euros was a lot of money to some people. Not the same thing at all.

CommanderROR · 03-02-2007, 09:17 AM

Guys, I'm going to go all moderator on you all right now if you don't calm down.

Stop attacking each other, stay on topic and keep discussing the real problems. The fact that jæd will hold to his position no matter what happens should be pretty clear to everybody. Just stop yelling at each other.
Thanks.

How about sending some PM and email messages to Karel and co. to get some more answers? That might help clear up the situation and put the pressure on those people who really deserve some. I have some information from Angel from a while back as to the origins of some of these Iliad problems and why iRex has so much trouble fixing them, but I'm not supposed to talk about it (and I don't want to get Angel into trouble by doing so) so i can't tell you that and I also have no way of knowing who really caused the mess...

The fact is, that we stand at a point right now where a company is admitting (more or les) that it miscalculated badly and has no way of fixing the problems in software (they are reducing the specs...) so they are planing on releasing new hardware which looks like something they should have done right when the problem appeared, thus preventing loads of people from buying devices that were doomed to be "crippled".
Maybe the Iliad Rev. 2 will have a chance on the wider market...but it depends on what they are going to change. A larger battery alone would be foolish, no more and no less. What use is eink if you fail to use one of it's two main advantages?

The GreatGonzo · 03-02-2007, 10:41 AM

Thank you, CommanderROR, that was just in time ... saved me from posting a whiny rant about how this forum is going to hell (just like any other forum/newsgroup/mailing list I've ever seen) because posts are suddenly about personal sensibilities rather than the actual issues at hand... and people's inability to agree to disagree drives me nuts...

Also, there was a nasty tone creeping into some of the previous posts that I
didn't much care for. Let's remain civilized, shall we?

High 5 · 03-02-2007, 10:49 AM

The Iliad had two main features for wich I bought it.
A superbly long battery life of 21 hours.
E-ink technology, so I wouldn't have to use that on/off switch all the time.

On both counts, the device has failed to deliver what it promised.
(granted, that on/off switch thing was something I deduced from the text, it was never a promise)

Still...
I would rather chop off an arm -preferably someone else's- than sell or lose my Iliad.
As reading devices go the Iliad is an absolute beaut!
Even the lack of a thousand and one different txt-formats doesn't bother me at all as I find it very easy to convert everything I steal (well, yes, I do that sort of thing) from the e-book newsgroups on usenet.
It is light on the eyes and the arm and a stunning conversation piece everywhere I go.

Has Irex bent the truth with its initial advertising?
Frankly, yes, I think it has.
But somehow... I can't feel mad about that.
Mind you, I can imagine people being mightily pissed off.
Before I start shooting at Irex employees and employers I would first like to wait what Irex plans are for the 'model one' buyers.

Time to roll out the meditation thread again.

ali · 03-02-2007, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CommanderROR

Guys, I'm going to go all moderator on you all right now if you don't calm down.

Awww man, just as I was revving up the sarcasm cannon.

I'll behave.

*sulk*

Moonraker · 03-03-2007, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Err did they ever say rtf? I though it was just plain txt?

Mea culpa -- I just checked -- they didn't specify RTF.

What they did specify was the following:

PDF
XHTML
TXT
MP3
Other formats will be supported in the near future.

This was in July 2006.

I assumed that RTF would be included in the "other formats"

Silly me!

RWood · 03-03-2007, 11:00 PM

Just because we like a company or want them to succeed is no reason to give them a free pass or allow them to skate on false advertising claims. iRex is a spin off from Phillips – one of the largest electronics companies in the world with operations reaching every part of the globe. They achieved that position by offering the customers what they wanted at a fair price and delivering what they said they would deliver.

Now I don’t own iLiad (I do own a Sony Reader) so I have no direct stake in the proceedings. However, all of us have an indirect stake because Phillips/iRex have and can in the future invest millions in development of more and better products and mount advertising campaigns to advance the awareness and market penetration of ebook readers. This can only help all of us.

“Bait and switch” is a marketing technique as for as long as humans have sold goods and services. I am sure that the original advertising materials for “fire” made it seem like a modern microwave oven. iRex needs to held accountable for their misdeeds – the battery life that was not there, the formats that were not readable. If you do not mount the suit against them now what is to stop them from doing it to you again?

Perhaps the best situation is to offer each current user the choice of
- returning the unit for a full refund,
- exchanging the current unit for one of the new version, or
- offering a rebate if you choose to retain the current unit.

Drops · 03-05-2007, 03:57 PM

RWood and Moonraker are absolutly right. Of course it all depends on the definition of "near future", as we know Irex that may be a pretty long time

I am not satisfied with Irex at all (see my other posts in the 'damaged screen' section).

As I've written in one of my first postings: I had to write an internal report about Illiad and Irex. I can't disclose the whole report but in a nutshell: The device got 6 out of 10 possible points, Irex as a company got 2 - the worst score ever achieved by a company (The 2 was awarded due to problems with their support, not fulfilling promises from their advertisment, wrong paperwork and a very long email exchange and several phone calls with their support line, a lot of wrong answers and the failure to comply with national laws in time).

That was the reason that no more devices were bought by us or our customers, besides the first test unit of course.

ali · 03-05-2007, 04:36 PM

Ok, less talking, more business:

Why don't we spawn a page in the wiki were we collect the story so far? Just the facts (As in: In May 06, the specs said "blabla week" (link to specs), on June 15 some irex guy said "dude, its delayed till august", in december somebody, ...)
Also, of course the current state (In the specification/advertisements from beginning of sales till 2007-03-01: MP3 player. Current state: Nonexisting)

It's just this process of collecting all the facts and writing them down that hinders me from sending some letters to people who might help (Friends that are lawyers. Also in germany: Verbraucherschutzorganisationen, c't "Vorsicht Kunde", ...)

So why don't we do it together?

03-02-2007, 08:39 AM	#31
Riocaz Fulfilled but not by iRex Posts: 932 Karma: 286846 Join Date: May 2006 Location: London Device: Far too many	Because we wouldn't recover a fraction of the money spent, and why the heck should we. We have a legal right to get what we paid for. Last edited by Riocaz; 03-02-2007 at 08:42 AM. Reason: Making my response a little more polite. And correcting my horrible grammar.

03-02-2007, 10:49 AM	#40
High 5 _/_/_/_/_/_/_/ Posts: 152 Karma: 501 Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Netherlands Device: Rocket ebook,Cybook, Hiebook, Iliad	The Iliad had two main features for wich I bought it. A superbly long battery life of 21 hours. E-ink technology, so I wouldn't have to use that on/off switch all the time. On both counts, the device has failed to deliver what it promised. (granted, that on/off switch thing was something I deduced from the text, it was never a promise) Still... I would rather chop off an arm -preferably someone else's- than sell or lose my Iliad. As reading devices go the Iliad is an absolute beaut! Even the lack of a thousand and one different txt-formats doesn't bother me at all as I find it very easy to convert everything I steal (well, yes, I do that sort of thing) from the e-book newsgroups on usenet. It is light on the eyes and the arm and a stunning conversation piece everywhere I go. Has Irex bent the truth with its initial advertising? Frankly, yes, I think it has. But somehow... I can't feel mad about that. Mind you, I can imagine people being mightily pissed off. Before I start shooting at Irex employees and employers I would first like to wait what Irex plans are for the 'model one' buyers. Time to roll out the meditation thread again. Last edited by High 5; 03-02-2007 at 03:22 PM. Reason: That's imagine with only 1 m in it, right?

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03-02-2007, 09:17 AM	#38
CommanderROR eink fanatic Posts: 2,022 Karma: 4924 Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Germany Device: STAReBOOK, iRex Iliad, Sony 505, Kindle 2	Guys, I'm going to go all moderator on you all right now if you don't calm down. Stop attacking each other, stay on topic and keep discussing the real problems. The fact that jæd will hold to his position no matter what happens should be pretty clear to everybody. Just stop yelling at each other. Thanks. How about sending some PM and email messages to Karel and co. to get some more answers? That might help clear up the situation and put the pressure on those people who really deserve some. I have some information from Angel from a while back as to the origins of some of these Iliad problems and why iRex has so much trouble fixing them, but I'm not supposed to talk about it (and I don't want to get Angel into trouble by doing so) so i can't tell you that and I also have no way of knowing who really caused the mess... The fact is, that we stand at a point right now where a company is admitting (more or les) that it miscalculated badly and has no way of fixing the problems in software (they are reducing the specs...) so they are planing on releasing new hardware which looks like something they should have done right when the problem appeared, thus preventing loads of people from buying devices that were doomed to be "crippled". Maybe the Iliad Rev. 2 will have a chance on the wider market...but it depends on what they are going to change. A larger battery alone would be foolish, no more and no less. What use is eink if you fail to use one of it's two main advantages?

03-02-2007, 10:41 AM	#39
The GreatGonzo Old Yeller Posts: 180 Karma: 67 Join Date: May 2006 Device: Iliad & Kindle - The Best of Both Worlds	Thank you, CommanderROR, that was just in time ... saved me from posting a whiny rant about how this forum is going to hell (just like any other forum/newsgroup/mailing list I've ever seen) because posts are suddenly about personal sensibilities rather than the actual issues at hand... and people's inability to agree to disagree drives me nuts... Also, there was a nasty tone creeping into some of the previous posts that I didn't much care for. Let's remain civilized, shall we?

03-03-2007, 11:00 PM	#43
RWood Technogeezer Posts: 7,233 Karma: 1601464 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Virginia, USA Device: Sony PRS-500	Just because we like a company or want them to succeed is no reason to give them a free pass or allow them to skate on false advertising claims. iRex is a spin off from Phillips – one of the largest electronics companies in the world with operations reaching every part of the globe. They achieved that position by offering the customers what they wanted at a fair price and delivering what they said they would deliver. Now I don’t own iLiad (I do own a Sony Reader) so I have no direct stake in the proceedings. However, all of us have an indirect stake because Phillips/iRex have and can in the future invest millions in development of more and better products and mount advertising campaigns to advance the awareness and market penetration of ebook readers. This can only help all of us. “Bait and switch” is a marketing technique as for as long as humans have sold goods and services. I am sure that the original advertising materials for “fire” made it seem like a modern microwave oven. iRex needs to held accountable for their misdeeds – the battery life that was not there, the formats that were not readable. If you do not mount the suit against them now what is to stop them from doing it to you again? Perhaps the best situation is to offer each current user the choice of - returning the unit for a full refund, - exchanging the current unit for one of the new version, or - offering a rebate if you choose to retain the current unit.

03-05-2007, 03:57 PM	#44
Drops Connoisseur Posts: 65 Karma: 10 Join Date: May 2006	RWood and Moonraker are absolutly right. Of course it all depends on the definition of "near future", as we know Irex that may be a pretty long time I am not satisfied with Irex at all (see my other posts in the 'damaged screen' section). As I've written in one of my first postings: I had to write an internal report about Illiad and Irex. I can't disclose the whole report but in a nutshell: The device got 6 out of 10 possible points, Irex as a company got 2 - the worst score ever achieved by a company (The 2 was awarded due to problems with their support, not fulfilling promises from their advertisment, wrong paperwork and a very long email exchange and several phone calls with their support line, a lot of wrong answers and the failure to comply with national laws in time). That was the reason that no more devices were bought by us or our customers, besides the first test unit of course.

03-05-2007, 04:36 PM	#45
ali Addict Posts: 302 Karma: 116 Join Date: May 2006 Device: Iliad, dude!	Ok, less talking, more business: Why don't we spawn a page in the wiki were we collect the story so far? Just the facts (As in: In May 06, the specs said "blabla week" (link to specs), on June 15 some irex guy said "dude, its delayed till august", in december somebody, ...) Also, of course the current state (In the specification/advertisements from beginning of sales till 2007-03-01: MP3 player. Current state: Nonexisting) It's just this process of collecting all the facts and writing them down that hinders me from sending some letters to people who might help (Friends that are lawyers. Also in germany: Verbraucherschutzorganisationen, c't "Vorsicht Kunde", ...) So why don't we do it together?

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