Are free books good quality?

[Maggie Leung]

Originally Posted by DavidKitson

Hi Maggie,

I'm sorry if my post came across as having missed that point. Indeed I did not. And please don't take this as an attack on your opinion because I can see a logic to your reasoning exactly as you do and I can't fault it.

It is why all the more, I am thinking that perhaps I should have a fully charged version of my story(ies) to cater for the market that simply does not look at free versions.

My writing might be great, it might indeed be dreck ( and if curiosity takes you, you are welcome to read the first pages and tell me directly - I will take no offense, I promise. Turing Evolved is linked from my blog and still free to download. )

But if the simple act of not adding a price is enough to cut me out of a more discerning market, then I'm questioning my original strategy of making it free.

Regards
David

David, I can't speak for others, but I rarely consider self-published books. So whether you charged for your books or gave them away, I probably wouldn't end up looking at them.

My stance against self-publishing is pretty straightforward: Anyone can self-publish. I'm in favor of that, because it affords people creative outlets and many readers seem happy enough with freebies. I just don't choose to spend my time that way.

I prefer nonfiction, as I mentioned in an earlier post. The kind of nonfiction I like best usually requires research and expertise, so they're not typically the kind of books people will offer for free or at low cost (unless subsidized by a publisher giveaway).

[bhartman36]

Originally Posted by DavidKitson

Yes, but as per my last comment, this is nothing to do with price. You could go with a publisher you trust perhaps but parting with your money is no guarantee that the book has been edited by someone other than the author.

I hadn't thought of that, actually. I think the presumption is usually that publishers have editors who read with a critical eye, whose purpose is to ensure the quality of whatever the publisher puts out. I think that's the stigma that self-publishing bears, whether its fair or not. (And here you certainly make the case that it's not.)

[James_Wilde]

Originally Posted by Maggie Leung

Free books bear a cost. The time I waste looking for a good book and reading dreck (even briefly) is time I'd rather spend doing other things. Given that, I'm willing to pay professionals to do filtering and editing. Of course there's no guarantee that professionally screened and edited books will all be good reads; I prefer the odds.

Note - posted before I saw Maggie's comment on her preference for non-fiction. That more or less puts her out of the market we're discussing here.

One can say that about many aspects of life, Maggie. Choosing a piece of software, going to a concert, buying clothes - do they fall apart after three months? And yes, the Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval that Simon and Schuster have pulled this one out of the mailbag can be a way of passing the responsibility over to others - or filtering the dross, if you prefer.

But making choices is a fact of life, and sometimes making wrong ones is what I would call a cost of living. And I'm thinking of the hundreds of other potentially good authors whose work was in the same bag as the one that S&S pulled out, but who got the rejection slip. I'm prepared to give some of them a chance. One can usually tell after only a few pages whether one is prepared to spend time on a book or not. And reading books is not something I do for a living so that reading a bad one is a loss of profit, so I'll take a chance on a freebie, and even on a $2.99 one once in a while.

[Maggie Leung]

Originally Posted by James_Wilde

One can say that about many aspects of life, Maggie. Choosing a piece of software, going to a concert, buying clothes - do they fall apart after three months? And yes, the Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval that Simon and Schuster have pulled this one out of the mailbag can be a way of passing the responsibility over to others - or filtering the dross, if you prefer.

But making choices is a fact of life, and sometimes making wrong ones is what I would call a cost of living. And I'm thinking of the hundreds of other potentially good authors whose work was in the same bag as the one that S&S pulled out, but who got the rejection slip. I'm prepared to give some of them a chance. One can usually tell after only a few pages whether one is prepared to spend time on a book or not. And reading books is not something I do for a living so that reading a bad one is a loss of profit, so I'll take a chance on a freebie, and even on a $2.99 one once in a while.

I'm not interested in converting you to my way of choosing books. If you're happy with your approach, more power to you. This thread is about individual opinions, and I posted mine accordingly. All that matters is that we all end up reading what we enjoy. I find I get value for my money when it comes to books.

[Maggie Leung]

Originally Posted by James_Wilde

Note - posted before I saw Maggie's comment on her preference for non-fiction. That more or less puts her out of the market we're discussing.

There are actually a decent number of free nonfiction books. They just don't tend to be good, lol.

There also are a good number of finance and business books given away by publishers. I've skimmed a bunch of those, but many are dreck as well.

[astra]

Originally Posted by DavidKitson

Then at what price do the books you read achieve value? $0.99? $1.99?, $10.99? $42.50? Even $0.01?

The rest of your post would suggest that it's not the price you value, but the content.

The concept "Free book" has no value for me.
I base my reading on reviews that I read on book forums (not blogs) + genre.
In other words, if a book from my to-be-read list happens to be free it would be a great bonus.
What I am trying to say is that if a book is free, I am not going to deviate from my planned course of reading and read it only because it is free.

I fully realise that I am a bad customer for writers. I am a slow reader. If a book is 900 pages (I love thick books, 300+) it takes me a month to read it. I cannot afford to dare unknown grounds to find a gem in a mire. I rely on forums where people discuss books from the genres I love. People who can join 100 books in a year club. These people can try anything, drop it get another one etc. Unfortunately, I can't. I am sorry. I wish I could.

[Richey79]

I like free as much as I do paid. I don't have any faith in the publishers as they are at the moment to act as guardians of quality control. Agreed, work that has had the attention of an editor will 'read better' than that which has not. If something seems to be quite poor, I'll read more quickly, and I'm never afraid of dropping a book part of the way through. It feels like going into uncharted territory.

David - your description of your writing process makes your books sound very interesting. Checked them out, and Military Diorama sounds like just my kind of thing.

[Freeshadow]

yup his workflow description kicked me into taking a peek too - and should I like the stuff I'll be the 1st one to suggest to put a small price tag on, just for those people who somwhere in the cellarsof their minds believe that free stuff can't be good enough to be taken seriously - (As a linux user I heard this ad nauseam)

[MrsPartridge]

I wonder about all the free books offered on Amazon and other bookstores. People who paid a couple of hundred bucks for readers probably weren't reading free books before but now they're trying to fill their reading time with unreliable bargains.

As for DavidKitson, he's probably a great author. I've seen amazing writing that publishers just don't bother to take on. Perhaps they're not in a genre that sells lots or they're not the hot sub-genre of the day. For instance, romantic sagas aren't selling now, it's all about vampires. You can write a wonderful saga but there isn't a large enough market for publishers to print 300,000 and distribute.

So for these excellent niche novels, we should be able to see digital only versions from reputable publishers. Carina Press seems to be a digital website from Harlequin and it offers the really hard to find sub-genres like "urban fantasy" and "shifters".

[emellaich]

Two thoughts occur to me on this discussion.

1) There seems to be some confusion between the word 'free' and the term 'self-published'. They aren't the same thing at all. Baen and many other reputable publishers use free as a promotional tool to pull you into the later books. (I know this doesn't interest you Astra, and I understand it doesn't work for you.). I find many of these free books to be quite worthwhile. Frankly, in many cases a publisher makes a book free that is tied to five or six others of the same series. The fact that the publisher has continued to publish the series is a pretty good sign that it has found some level of audience enjoyment.

2) In regard to self-published works -- I do read them. However, I don't like to take a chance (waste my time) on something completely untried. I read quite a bit more than Astra, but there are now so many books out there that i can be somewhat selective. This means that I look for something that has reviews of 4 stars out of five by at least 20 reviewers.

[Maggie Leung]

Originally Posted by emellaich

Two thoughts occur to me on this discussion.

1) There seems to be some confusion between the word 'free' and the term 'self-published'. They aren't the same thing at all. Baen and many other reputable publishers use free as a promotional tool to pull you into the later books. (I know this doesn't interest you Astra, and I understand it doesn't work for you.). I find many of these free books to be quite worthwhile. Frankly, in many cases a publisher makes a book free that is tied to five or six others of the same series. The fact that the publisher has continued to publish the series is a pretty good sign that it has found some level of audience enjoyment.

2) In regard to self-published works -- I do read them. However, I don't like to take a chance (waste my time) on something completely untried. I read quite a bit more than Astra, but there are now so many books out there that i can be somewhat selective. This means that I look for something that has reviews of 4 stars out of five by at least 20 reviewers.

Free and self-published books are sometimes one in the same, as various posts have touched on. The ones given away by major publishers usually are available for only a limited time. The public domain ones are now free because copyright has expired.

Fiction is most widely available free and self-published. For my purposes, I'm least likely to be interested in those type of books. That's the stuff that requires the most time to filter, because there is so much of it. IMO, much of it is of poor quality.

[neilmarr]

I've been a pro writer and an editor for over four decades. Books I personally edit are currently released at the rate of about ten a year by an independent publishing house in which I head up a small, professional and experienced editorial team and by well-known larger houses.

Always the editing process goes on for months. Where construction and significant revision is involved, it can be over a year before a piece of work is ready to fly.

Often an author and I will deeply consider editorial suggestions along the way before reaching agreement. Never once has an author ever not agreed that his work is vastly improved by a through editing process involving at least one pro editor and several proof readers and beta readers to catch any remaining editorial typos. Never have I published original work of my own that hasn't been edited by another and proof read by fresh eyes outside the author-editor partnership.

So I can tell at a glance over a few pages whether I'm reading a thoroughly worked piece or raw manuscript.

What I can't and won't do, though, is to even hint that because a book is self-published and offered freely or cheaply and without professional editorial input means that it is necessarily unworthy. I have read self-published work that has impressed me greatly and traditionally produced books that have not.

I often wonder, though, if self publishing is truly a matter of an author wishing to retain utter control and independence or if bad luck in securing a publisher's freely offered editorial assistance and being unable to afford the high fees of a sound pro freelance forces them to go solo as a last resort. You see, I regularly spot manuscripts I've declined popping up -- warts-n-all -- as self-published work a month or so later.

Although a very heavy work schedule severely restricts my 'recreational' reading, this very weekend, I read a historical fiction piece called 'White Seed', self-published by a MobileRead member called Paul Clayton, a writer I've known and admired for ten years and more. Was I impressed? Bet your boots I was. It was epic and it was magnificent. Could it have been improved with assistance from a good editor? Bet your socks it could.

But this piece is out there in ebook form in the bargain basement. We should thank our lucky stars for the likes of Paul and other independent authors who so generously offer their heart-wrung words this way. On the other hand, finding them now is a little like looking for a needle in a haystack that gets bigger and bigger by the day.

The reader of self-published work must now sift his own slush pile. I sympathise with the reader ... but also with those fine indie authors struggling for a few precious hours of your time now that the crack in the traditional door is closing and the flood gates have opened wide.

Best wishes, love and luck to all writers and readers in the fine company I keep here at MobileRead. Your contribution to the art -- with your fingers at the keyboard or noses buried in an ebook reader -- is beyond value. Neil

[sbtx99]

Originally Posted by MrsPartridge

Aside from the classics that are available for free, do you find the freebies offered on Kindle/Kobo/Sony etc. sites worth reading?

I was sure that most would be sort of below average - like reading a high schooler's attempt at fiction writing and no decent editing that you can get from a publishing house. However I'm really enjoying the freebie I got on the Sony site called "Romeo Romeo" by Robin Kaye.

Are you happy with the free books offered?

It really depends on the book. Sometimes I'll find a free backlist title by an author who has a new book due out soon, where the backlist title is offered free to promote the newer title (as with Robin Kaye). I've gotten a few free books by favorite authors of mine this way, and also some new-to-me authors that I had been wanting to try.

Then there are the freebies from Harlequin. I think I have about 50 of those, most of which I got directly from Harlequin or Mills & Boon. I've only read three of them. One I didn't finish. One was Ok. But the third book (by Leslie Kelly) I enjoyed and went on to buy a couple backlist titles of hers and all of her Leslie Parrish books.

And then there are the deals for $2.99 or less, also often backlist titles offered really cheap when the author has a new title due out. I've picked up a few new-to-me authors this way, but I've also found deals for authors I've read before. For example, I picked up Bet Me by Jennifer Crusie a couple months ago for $2 or $3. I had read one or two other books by her, but it was Bet Me that really got me started on buying up her backlist.

[sbtx99]

Originally Posted by K-Thom

So simply download them, read a few lines and delete them if you don't like them. It's about the same amount of time you'd spend in a bookstore trying to find something worthy to read (and buy).

This is why I download most of the limited-time free books in genres I read. Most of the time I don't even bother to read the blurb, especially books offered free by major publishers or print-based smaller publishers like Sourcebooks (which I think the Robin Kaye book is from Sourcebooks.)

I'll probably never read most of the free books I've downloaded. But once or twice I've downloaded a freebie and months later I'll see another book by the same author that sounds interesting. I'll read (or try to read) the freebie before deciding to buy the newer title.

[DavidKitson]

Originally Posted by neilmarr

I often wonder, though, if self publishing is truly a matter of an author wishing to retain utter control and independence or if bad luck in securing a publisher's freely offered editorial assistance and being unable to afford the high fees of a sound pro freelance forces them to go solo as a last resort. You see, I regularly spot manuscripts I've declined popping up -- warts-n-all -- as self-published work a month or so later.

Hi Neil,

Thankyou for your well thought and and considered post. If I might, I would like to offer a perspective on this.

I have formerly been a professional editor by background. It was never my primary career. I've always been an electronic/internet engineer. But I did fall into a side-career in journalism that spanned eight years and for six of them, I was an editor of various descriptions. All of it was quite well paid and for some of it, I lived entirely off the proceeds.

Back then I remember publishers and agents falling all over me for my attention. Now they don't even return my emails. It's funny how that changes. Regardless, I understand the value of editing and don't believe in utter control and independence. I know I'm simply not good enough to produce excellent results on my own ( And earlier I mentioned I'm not capable of editing my own work )

Paying a freelance editor is a big expense, so it's easy to see why it's not a common option, despite good editors being available for work on novels for under $1000. If a writer thinks they will recover the costs, by all means. There are freelance editors that I wouldn't hesitate to recommend.

So that leaves publishers. As a writer, getting before a publisher is a LOT of hard work and to be honest, I think luck plays more a part than skill. More so if you're a niche genre writer. Even then, I've heard some publishers point out that you pretty much still have to edit your own work at your own cost before they will publish you. So all they can do in the end is put your book to print.

Mark Coker talks a good talk and the WA Department of Culture and Arts brought him to Perth to discuss E-publishing. I listened and what he said resonated with me. You can read a little about it here. Aside from the stigma of self-publishing ( Some writers believe you become untouchable after that ) and the costs to myself, it really felt like a way forward to me.

If it was easier to find a publisher - if it was easier to follow that process - I would most certainly consider it over self publishing. Like most new writers, I don't even know how to effectively approach this problem. Most of us feel that it's like stumbling through the dark with both feet tied together. You get nowhere fast and you still get hurt in the process.

Some of the best authors I know have had problems so what chance do I have? They were driven to try publisher after publisher whereas I'm not. So for me, at least, self publishing is a real alternative.

So why did I self-publish? Because the barriers to finding a publisher otherwise are too high and because I'm really not very strong at that part of the process.

And maybe a little bit because I'd rather that someone reads my work and enjoys it than it sit hidden until forgotten. After all, I write for the enjoyment.

I like to think I might make money one day, but if not, I will self publish. I do what I can to address my own self-myopia and participate extensively in critting circles at different stages of development. I learn new writing skills and expose these to the same process.

I won't pretend I'm going to be famous because I probably won't be. But in 10 days, I've had 600 e-book downloads. It's hardly a bestseller and no doubt the price plays an important part in that, but hey! I'm stoked, I really am. So that really reinforces the experience for me. ( Does anyone know the typical rate of downloads for e-books? )

Of course, I'm still waiting for reviews like an expectant parent... But they will come and if they are good, I will write more. If they are bad, I will still write more, but either way, I'll pay attention to what I need to work on.

Regards
David