Amazon launches cost-cutting review focusing on Alexa

[Quoth]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

I'm familiar. I don't think my Amazon Basics pajama pants would count as a 'device'

Ever watched "The Wrong Pair of Trousers" starring Wallace and Grommet?

Beware penguins interfering with your pyjamas.

[ownedbycats]

Originally Posted by tomsem

But I don't think demand for those products is growing very robustly except with geekier folks.

Ironically, most of the "geekier folks" I'm acquainted with (sysops/IT people/programmers) avoid smart devices.

[Comfy.n]

Originally Posted by ownedbycats

Ironically, most of the "geekier folks" I'm acquainted with (sysops/IT people/programmers) avoid smart devices.

Attachment 197687

that "2004 printer" was a bit over hyperbolic

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by ownedbycats

Ironically, most of the "geekier folks" I'm acquainted with (sysops/IT people/programmers) avoid smart devices.

My experience has been the opposite. And I AM sysops/IT people/programmers. *shrug*

[haertig]

I worked in IT before retirement. I don't shun smart devices. But I do analyse at them on an individual basis before purchasing.

For example, internet controlled front door locks or internet controlled overhead garage door opener. I can say nyet to those without even researching. Can you say "gaping security hole"? Internet controlled thermostat. Hmmm, I'm wondering why I would ever want to control or even check on my house temperature remotely. Nein. WiFi connected toilet. Might be good for a party prank sometime, but otherwise ... non.

[DNSB]

I think I qualify in the sysop/IT person group as well. Other than using a hardware firewall and checking it's log files for unexpected in and outbound traffic, I am quite willing to use the newest technology. More precisely, my wife wants to be able to check everything on her phone and happy wife, happy life. <wry grin>

OTOH, I will admit that I have found "smart devices" with outbound traffic to unexpected ports and IP addresses. Then there a couple of devices that were attempting to maintain a permanent connection to an external IP address. Does a thermostat really need a 24/7 connection so it can respond immediately to any requested changes compared to it's replacement that checks once per minute?

[MGlitch]

Worse are reports of smart thermostats turning off the heat when the smartphone that’s connected to them is discovered via Wi-Fi to be in a state several states away, and turning off the heat as a result. Sure it’s nice if everyone in the household is with that smartphone but it’s rather annoying for those who aren’t, and who come home to a freezing house.

[haertig]

I had a cheap video camera that some people questioned it's connections to external IP addresses. I didn't verify this myself, but after I had loaded the companies beta firmware to add RSTP capabilities I put the thing on a separate VLAN all by itself and blocked everything with the firewall, except for one incoming connection, on one incoming port, from the one computer (on a different VLAN) that I wanted to observe the RTSP video stream from. So that camera could not initiate ANY outgoing connections to anything, and could not receive ANY incoming connections except from that one computer, on that one port, I had designated and opened the firewall hole for.

In this instance I didn't trust the camera 100% (based on unverified internet reports), so I just firewalled it into oblivion. It must have thought it was stranded on a deserted island somewhere. But that worked for my purposes. This camera was easy to put into a secure box. The typical smart device is a little tougher, but you usually can take a few steps to mitigate your concerns if you think that is warranted, and you're willing to do your research and put in a little work.

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

I'm familiar. I don't think my Amazon Basics pajama pants would count as a 'device'

You're correct. There are lots of things branded Amazon Basics that aren't devices.

[Quoth]

Originally Posted by haertig

I had a cheap video camera that some people questioned it's connections to external IP addresses.

You aren't being paranoid. Issues have been unauthorised viewing and also bot net operators simply using them as more fire power, because not only is connection insecure but the OS FW insecure too.
Internet of Things (IoT) is a disaster:
Security (3rd party access & used to profile house use)
Privacy (supplying company spying for Ad info and Amazon gives Ring files to Police without warrant!)
Bricking. Devices that can only be configured via supplier's server and either it's offline, or your internet is lost or supplier closes service.
I would not use anything that needs the Internet to work day to day other than Web Browser and email.

Tesco supermarket had an own brand tablet. It connects to Internet on a Factory reset and after they stopped selling them they turned off the server. Thereafter any tablet factory reset was bricked. Tesco denied they switched off the servers (2016?) and said the ver1 and Ver2 were EOL anyway. As of 2022 you need to root and install hacked FW on the Hudl.

[Apache]

Originally Posted by haertig

I worked in IT before retirement. I don't shun smart devices. But I do analyse at them on an individual basis before purchasing.

For example, internet controlled front door locks or internet controlled overhead garage door opener. I can say nyet to those without even researching. Can you say "gaping security hole"? Internet controlled thermostat. Hmmm, I'm wondering why I would ever want to control or even check on my house temperature remotely. Nein. WiFi connected toilet. Might be good for a party prank sometime, but otherwise ... non.

I have been using a Wi-Fi thermostat, in my store since 2010. It is great to be able to set it to the temp I want when I get up and be comfortable when I get to work. During the summers we can have lows in the upper 80's. It replaced a programmable thermostat that was less than reliable. I also have two HVAC systems in my house, and both are controlled by Wi-F thermostats. Before we close the store, I turn them on, and we are comfortable when we get home. The same goes for taking trips. They were also useful when my wife had her hip replaced and she could set the temperature without having to walk down the halls. I installed one in my mother's house too. She has macular degeneration, and she can set the temperature using Alexa. So yes, some of us do find them useful.
Apache

[DiapDealer]

When I tell my home automation server that I'm "Away", the thermostat goes down and key lights go into a randomized pattern for the evening. My aging freezer will send me an unencrypted text if it gets too warm for too long. I've also built my own smart garage door opening device that integrates with Alexa (they automatically close if left open late at night), but since my garage is separate from my home, I consider the convenience to far out weight any security concerns. But I don't think that much about the security aspects of smart devices/home automation in the first place. I consider my home to be just as easy to break into by determined thieves as it was pre smart devices. And the casual thief probably won't be toting the gear needed to hack my automation stuff anyway.

[theducks]

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

Amazon Basics is Amazon branding stuff made by other companies.

Right. No different tactic from other 'house brands'.
Kenmore, Silvertone were Sear brands, mostly made by others, some with specific tweaks.
I worked in a VCR repair shop. I can't count how many brand labels came in that were basically (the mechanical pieces were almost 100% interchangeable) the RCA VCR. Sears, Radio Shack and many more.
The Epson MX80 printer wore a number of Corporate colors and badges: IBM, HP, TI ...
A big name brand is going to watchdog the quality because their good name is on the line.

[theducks]

Originally Posted by ownedbycats

Ironically, most of the "geekier folks" I'm acquainted with (sysops/IT people/programmers) avoid smart devices.

Attachment 197687

Bingo!

I grew up in Snow/Winter storm country. My folks had more than a weeks Off Grid supplies (lots more, but things got real boring).
I've been lucky for years, without interruptions of more than a day. I know folk that went weeks (or never, lost everything) during the same event
.
Which is also why my Media collection is physical.Things fail. Companies fail or go dark (outages).
I get to enjoy my entertainment, even when on Generator or battery.
I also have my entire Network and Cable Modem on UPS. (You should see the speed I get, when the neighborhood is stuck in the dark.)
So many people have given up on providing their own redundancy in the name of convenience. When Major disasters happen, it can be a long time on your own. Starbucks may be closed, but I can boil water in the fireplace and pour it over the grounds in the funnel from my coffee maker. (FWIW I was known at my last job as 'the guy who made coffee' (in a put the grounds in the filter and push BREW. That is right 2018 and half the folk could not even make a pot of coffee )

[haertig]

Originally Posted by Apache

I have been using a Wi-Fi thermostat, in my store since 2010.

It makes more sense when you maintain/control multiple locations. I had not considered that case.

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

I consider my home to be just as easy to break into by determined thieves as it was pre smart devices.

You do have a point there. Why mess with hacking a smart device to break in when a rock thrown through a window will suffice?

I guess what I really don't like about many smart devices is that they rely not only on the internet, but on some third party server owned by some corporation. I don't like it, but I realize it is the only way for some devices. The devices I mentioned earlier - Alexa devices - certainly are going to require more intelligence/processing than what's contained in that little plastic thingy you place in your home. Unfortunately, you are at the mercy of the manufacturer when they initially supply a free web access account, that they later convert to a pay account. Can you say "RING doorbell"? Initially it's free, but pretty soon you have to start paying a monthly fee. You are totally dependent on a third party server in the cloud. If the internet goes down, or the manufacture goes out of business, there's nothing you can do. Your money was flushed down the toilet. There is no local control of the device.

[ edit: I just re-read what I typed below. It was meant to be an example of what I consider a "good" smart device. But it almost sounds like an advertisement as I re-read it. Not my original intent. But it's still a good example of what I think a smart device should be. ]

A good example of the kind of smart devices I prefer is my lawn sprinkler controller. You can create an account with the manufacture to control it remotely. But you don't have to. The thing hosts it's own complete webserver and implements all functions locally. So you can log into it's full interface directly from your LAN, with no outside internet connection being required. The manufacturer offers remote connectivity "from anywhere" via an smartphone app that can connect through their servers as a middleman to your device at home. But you can implement that same functionality yourself with a home-hosted VPN. Their smart phone app normally connects to their servers, but you can direct it to connect to any IP address you want - including directly over your home VPN. Many smart sprinkler controllers will default back to a "standard" watering schedule if they lose internet connectivity. The one I have operates completely locally, so it keeps running on it's custom programmed schedule whether internet is present or not. It has the ability to adjust watering day, times and durations based on weather forecasts (which it downloads from the internet). But if the internet goes away, you just lose those weather-based tweaks and it doesn't make any adjustments to you normally programmed schedule and runs it "as is". Personally, I don't use any of the internet-based weather tweaks except for the "freeze warning", which will shut down the system so you don't end up with frozen sprinkler lines. But since a weather forecast of "90% chance of rain" doesn't mean that it is guaranteed to rain, I use a physical rain sensor in my backyard hooked up to the controller that it uses to decide watering schedules depending on if it's raining or not. If push comes to shove, and your router goes down so your smart phone can't talk to the sprinkler controller, you can always plug your laptop into it (it has an ethernet jack). If that fails, you can program and control it via buttons and an LCD display on the front.

This sprinkler controller is what I call a good "smart" design. You CAN use the internet to facilitate things, but you don't have to. If the manufacturer goes out of business tomorrow my controller will still work to it's full capacity. It's a pretty smart little bugger, and it was only something like $49 in the end (because my city has huge rebates on your water bill if you install a smart sprinkler controller - my rebate was $150 IIRC!) This excellent controller came out being cheaper than a standard dumb controller because of the city rebate (I knew that when I bought it, which is why I bought it). Plus, it's got 16 zones - twice as many as I need (I bought the larger zone model for future expansion). You can use the extra zones to hook up lighting or some other 24vac thing if you want to. You can even tell it what to do verbally via Alexa, Siri or Google Assistant, although I haven't bothered to try and set that up yet.

https://rainmachine.com for anyone interested. I have the Pro-16 model.