New Fire Max 11

[tomsem]

Originally Posted by salamanderjuice

ArtRage Vitae in the Amazon App Store is a good drawing/painting app and should support pen pressure so long the device/pen itself does.

Yes, they also have an iPad app. I'll check it out.

Actually OneNote supports pressure sensitive drawing. However it does not work very well: I will be editing a note and it will stop letting me do anything, and I have to close and re-open it to continue.

[davedeacon]

Originally Posted by afv011

Not sure if this was meant as a reply to my post, but I didn't suggest you need to jailbreak (or root as is more commonly called on Android), but that the steps are not necessarily trivial.

They are about as trivial as you can get. You google a guide and it tells you alter a switch in the settings from off to on, and then to download 4 files and install them. How is that not trivial? Anyone who can follow simple instructions can do this.

[tomsem]

Originally Posted by davedeacon

They are about as trivial as you can get. You google a guide and it tells you alter a switch in the settings from off to on, and then to download 4 files and install them. How is that not trivial? Anyone who can follow simple instructions can do this.

'Trivial' it is not. Trivial means:

a. of little worth or importance, or
b. relating to or being the mathematically simplest case

It is neither a. nor b.

Perhaps 'straightforward' would be more appropriate. Trivial might cover finding a setting and toggling it, but not more than that.

That said, even so-called experts seem to be doing it wrong, e.g.:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TskU3IIcT2E

(one of only 2 videos that discuss installing Google Play on Fire Max 11 specifically; the other one has you install Fire Toolbox from XDA Developers, which is even less trivial and not even necessary to get Google Play)

He references the same guide as I posted earlier, but then picks the wrong APKs, choosing those for Fire OS 7/Android 9 (which is what Fire HD 10 runs) and not those for Fire OS 8/Android 11 (which is what the Fire 7 12th gen and Fire Max 11 run). Maybe it works anyway, but I would not trust it.

Apparently even with 'successful' install, there are some issues with some functions of Google's apps, as they assume the existence of libraries which are not present on Fire OS.

And there are no guarantees that some future update will break things, etc.

As for FTB, the latest Fire OS 8 update has locked down some of the apk's that FTB wants to modify (you're supposed to install it before any OTA updates, and then block them, FWIW):

June, 2022. Release of Gen 12 Fire 7 tablet and Fire OS 8.3.1.
Total confusion. Google Play Services infrastructure installs but runs inconsistently. Many apps incompatible/unstable. FireOS 8 "locked down" and many system apks inaccessible to ADB. OTA update and Fire Launcher apps cannot be disabled. GPS infrastructure virtually unusable.

November, 2022. FireOS 8.3.1.3 released. "Miraculously" Gen 12 Fire 7/8 were fully accessible to ADB commands. OTA Updates and Fire Launcher could be readily disabled. Google Play works! ... just like pre-f/w 7.3.2.2 days.

June, 2023 . FireOS 8.3.1.9 released. Amazon may have locked down some system apps again including OTA Updates and Fire Launcher. ADB commands ineffective. Situation under active evaluation. Workarounds may be required and are being developed.

I may give FTB a go on my Fire HD 8.

[davedeacon]

Originally Posted by tomsem

'Trivial' it is not. Trivial means:


It is neither a. nor b.

Perhaps 'straightforward' would be more appropriate. Trivial might cover finding a setting and toggling it, but not more than that.

That said, even so-called experts seem to be doing it wrong, e.g.:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TskU3IIcT2E

(one of only 2 videos that discuss installing Google Play on Fire Max 11 specifically; the other one has you install Fire Toolbox from XDA Developers, which is even less trivial and not even necessary to get Google Play)

He references the same guide as I posted earlier, but then picks the wrong APKs, choosing those for Fire OS 7/Android 9 (which is what Fire HD 10 runs) and not those for Fire OS 8/Android 11 (which is what the Fire 7 12th gen and Fire Max 11 run). Maybe it works anyway, but I would not trust it.

Apparently even with 'successful' install, there are some issues with some functions of Google's apps, as they assume the existence of libraries which are not present on Fire OS.

And there are no guarantees that some future update will break things, etc.

As for FTB, the latest Fire OS 8 update has locked down some of the apk's that FTB wants to modify (you're supposed to install it before any OTA updates, and then block them, FWIW):


I may give FTB a go on my Fire HD 8.

I use trivial to mean "extremely easy; not a problem" like most people do. I was amused to read in the review of the tablet in Wired the guy had a problem. Not sure why he's writing for Wired, then. 4 apks and a switch. An idiot could do it. i have no idea why people install (potentially dodgy) apps to help them install it. Youtubers are experts now? That's news for me. "What happened next will amaze you! I screwed up doing something simple! Don't forget to like and subscribe, and check out my merch". I'm sure you can find loads of examples of people installing the wrong apks. Proves nothing other than some people just can't follow simple instructions. It's not a reason for a non-idiot to not get the tablet and install it, is it? Some people take too many drugs, or get into a car and bump into things at high speed - not a reason to not take drugs or drive. As far as I know Amazon have never made any attempt to stop people installing the Play Store; they'd be foolish to as many people would stop buying the tablets if they did. I think I remember reading one of their tablets had a problem with the Play Store upon release and that an update soon sorted it; i'd be amazed if it stopped working. We'll have to wait and find out, won't we. No idea what FTB is, but I like keeping my tablets up to date so wouldn't be happy blocking OTA updates.

[afv011]

Originally Posted by davedeacon

An idiot could do it.

Please get off your high horse. If that's the definition of idiot, I certainly know a lot of idiots.

[issybird]

Originally Posted by afv011

Please get off your high horse. If that's the definition of idiot, I certainly know a lot of idiots.

You seem hung up on the notion of precise definitions, bizarrely and inaccurately. The use of idiot is not limited to idiots. High horse would be reflective. And yes, installing Google Play requires only the ability to follow a few and simple directions.

[tomsem]

Finally got the keyboard case. It is pretty decent, however has no affordance to secure the stylus beyond what the magnets supply. And of course it nearly doubles the overall weight. But you can remove the keyboard easily, or the whole thing, it is a magnetic attachment only. It bothers me that the stylus is so easily dislodged; the magnets holding it on could be stronger.

I ordered a rotating cover like Fintie's on eBay to try out (about half the price), but think I will wind up getting a stylus holder of some sort that I can attach to the Amazon cover (but lots of options to consider).

The Kindle app could use some hotkeys, cursor keys turn pages of course but Home and Library require more than the keyboard to navigate and when reading it would be nice to be able to pull up ToC, Xray, adjust text size with keyboard alone. The Notebooks option says 'You don't have any notebooks' (but I have a Scribe, and do have some). I want to think this is a placeholder for full Notebook support in the next couple of months.

[tomsem]

Installed Google Play on my Fire Max 11, following directions for Fire 7 (12th generation).

Seems to be working okay, and the apps I'd previously gotten from APKMirror updated successfully.

[Desertway]

Has anyone noticed whether the text to speech options are the same on the Max as they are on previous Fire tablets? I keep hoping that Amazon will upgrade the voices for tts on the Kindle app.

[tomsem]

Originally Posted by Desertway

Has anyone noticed whether the text to speech options are the same on the Max as they are on previous Fire tablets? I keep hoping that Amazon will upgrade the voices for tts on the Kindle app.

They are the same text to speech voices as my Fire HD 10, as far as I can tell (they sound exactly the same).

For reference, Kindle app is currently version 14.84.100 on both (but TTS is a system service, not part of the Kindle app).

There are evidently hacks that let you replace the default TTS engine, but for me the default engine (Ivona) is good enough, even though it does not seem to be getting updates.

Note that you can use Alexa (on Fire or Echo etc) to read books, and it evidently uses Amazon Polly (an AWS service which is the successor to Ivona):

https://aws.amazon.com/polly/

It does sound more natural, and of course will improve over time. You can open the book with Kindle app (or Kindle) and follow along in the text. I need to figure out how to change default voice, the Alexa app is not showing me how to do it for some reason (I tap on the card and it opens an empty screen).

It would be nice if they would update the on-device voice data somehow, or let you have the Kindle app use the Amazon Polly voices directly (when on line).

Interestingly Pocketbook licenses Ivona voices for their eReaders. They support a few languages that neither Fire or Amazon Polly support (or at least Czech).

[Desertway]

Originally Posted by tomsem

They are the same text to speech voices as my Fire HD 10, as far as I can tell (they sound exactly the same).

For reference, Kindle app is currently version 14.84.100 on both (but TTS is a system service, not part of the Kindle app).

Thanks very much for looking into it for me. It's very much appreciated. It looks like it's the same version as on my Fire HD 8.

There are evidently hacks that let you replace the default TTS engine, but for me the default engine (Ivona) is good enough, even though it does not seem to be getting updates.

I'll definitely check that hack out, but odds are that it's well beyond me.

Note that you can use Alexa (on Fire or Echo etc) to read books, and it evidently uses Amazon Polly (an AWS service which is the successor to Ivona):

https://aws.amazon.com/polly/

It does sound more natural, and of course will improve over time. You can open the book with Kindle app (or Kindle) and follow along in the text. I need to figure out how to change default voice, the Alexa app is not showing me how to do it for some reason (I tap on the card and it opens an empty screen).

I do listen by way of Alexa sometimes, and it's probably the most natural voice I've heard. It's just that it gets old...the same voice for everything, and one many of us have heard for years. As far as I can tell, you can change the voice for all other interactions, but when you ask Alexa to read, it always goes to that default voice.

It would be nice if they would update the on-device voice data somehow, or let you have the Kindle app use the Amazon Polly voices directly (when on line).

I'd be happy if they would even update their flagship device with the standard Polly voices, not even the latest and greatest Polly Neural.

Interestingly Pocketbook licenses Ivona voices for their eReaders. They support a few languages that neither Fire or Amazon Polly support (or at least Czech).

I thought about getting a Pocketbook because of the nicely integrated TTS, but didn't want to give up the convenience of the Kindle ecosystem and whispersync.

Thanks again for all your feedback.

[tomsem]

Originally Posted by Desertway

I do listen by way of Alexa sometimes, and it's probably the most natural voice I've heard. It's just that it gets old...the same voice for everything, and one many of us have heard for years. As far as I can tell, you can change the voice for all other interactions, but when you ask Alexa to read, it always goes to that default voice.

I cannot change Alexa voice at all, much less for reading. I do have some foreign language books, presumably that voice is different (if it works at all) but then of course I'd need to have better skills to understand it.

There is a Help topic that says that you can change the Alexa voice using the Alexa app. However, none of my Alexa devices (3 Fire tablets and a Fire TV) show such an option. I'm guessing that you need a newer Echo to be able to do it.

The odd part about Amazon Polly is that the APIs let you select voices easily:

https://aws.amazon.com/polly/features/?nc=sn&loc=3

[Desertway]

Much like the Kindle itself, the Alexa settings are all over the place. In the app, I click on Devices on the bottom of the screen, then Echo & Alexa on the top, then my Echo Dot. On the top right is a gear icon, and one of the options on that list is "Alexa's Voice". It is there for my Old 2nd Gen dot as well as my newer ones. I'm surprised that it isn't even there for the Fire TV.

The setting for the Alexa Assistive Reader is under More (bottom menu) / Settings/ Accessability / Kindle Assistive Reader. But you can only turn it on and off.

(You probably already knew all of that.)

P.S. I see you have Apple devices as well. Do you ever use Spoken Content in the Kindle app on those? If you do, how is it? I've heard that the most recent Siri voices are pretty good.

[tomsem]

Originally Posted by Desertway

Much like the Kindle itself, the Alexa settings are all over the place. In the app, I click on Devices on the bottom of the screen, then Echo & Alexa on the top, then my Echo Dot. On the top right is a gear icon, and one of the options on that list is "Alexa's Voice". It is there for my Old 2nd Gen dot as well as my newer ones. I'm surprised that it isn't even there for the Fire TV.

The setting for the Alexa Assistive Reader is under More (bottom menu) / Settings/ Accessability / Kindle Assistive Reader. But you can only turn it on and off.

(You probably already knew all of that.)

P.S. I see you have Apple devices as well. Do you ever use Spoken Content in the Kindle app on those? If you do, how is it? I've heard that the most recent Siri voices are pretty good.

I think I have Echo Dot 2nd generation in storage. I may have to recommission it just to be able to experiment with other Alexa voices. But I think there's no remote control ability with that? It's been awhile since I used it.

I do use Speak Screen with the Kindle app. It is simple to select the desired voice, and it switches language automatically to match the book. Kindle's support for it (and for Accessibility features more generally) is much better than most reading apps, but it does not do phrase highlighting like it ideally would (Apple Books and News apps do this). The main issue for me is the inability to use a headset or keyboard control to pause and resume playback, you have to touch the screen or use Voice Control (and even with VC I think there is no simple command to 'stop reading'). It's not clear why Apple does not wire it up to enable this.

But that is the case with Kindle TTS as well: you must use the on screen play/pause button, which requires a couple of taps to get to. VoiceView also does not work with headset controls (on Fire and Kindle). You would think that accessibility features would be more flexible.

Using Alexa on Fire to play stuff does work with headset controls and the media keyboard keys. It is just annoying to be restricted to a single voice.

[Desertway]

Originally Posted by tomsem

The main issue for me is the inability to use a headset or keyboard control to pause and resume playback, you have to touch the screen or use Voice Control (and even with VC I think there is no simple command to 'stop reading'). It's not clear why Apple does not wire it up to enable this.

Thanks for bringing this up. I've seen videos of Speak Screen that show that little floating control panel and mistakenly assumed that it would work with bluetooth play/pause. What a shame.