Amazon Removed Gay Books from Rankings - Page 3

Elfwreck · 04-12-2009, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GlennD

This seems to be much ado about nothing. Gay and lesbian books are being taken off the sales rankings along with other adult material. So what? The only complain I can see is that the standards aren't evenly applied amongst adult books.

Among the "adult" books that have had their sales rankings removed is "Heather Has Two Mommies."

Seabound · 04-12-2009, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whitearrow

Amazon is now claiming it was a "glitch."

http://www.publishersweekly.com/article/CA6651080.html

Yeah, a very man-made glitch. But more like a blunder, really.

ShortNCuddlyAm · 04-12-2009, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whitearrow

Amazon is now claiming it was a "glitch."

http://www.publishersweekly.com/article/CA6651080.html

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seabound

Yeah, a very man-made glitch. But more like a blunder, really.

Indeed, especially as it doens't really tally with the communication at least one author apparently got from them...

stormcloude · 04-12-2009, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andybaby

im sure someone just got a little too happy with the banhammer on that one

It was delisted along with biographies for Ellen Degeneres, Melissa Etheridge, John Barrowman, Harvey Milk and Stephen Fry.

Yet the biographies for Ron Jeremy and Traci Lords still have their sales rankings and are completely searchable?

Naw, it's not targeted at all. /sarcasm

Andybaby · 04-12-2009, 10:59 PM

no, Im sure it is, but it doesnt mean its company policy is all im saying,

people have to go though the items by hand to do it. it could very easily be one person, or a small group of people who were told to do one thing, and took it upon themselves to extend it.

i have faith im amazon fixing that in a few days

Seabound · 04-12-2009, 11:02 PM

The last thing I will have "faith" on is a company like Amazon.

stormcloude · 04-12-2009, 11:11 PM

There is a theory that it's the work of some sort of ultra-conservative "family" organization here.

Though I still wouldn't call that a glitch, if it's true. More of a gaping hole in their programming.

GlennD · 04-12-2009, 11:12 PM

So if Playboy's material, Laurel Hamilton's books, and biographies of Ron Jeremy and Traci Lords are unrated, that'll make everyone happy? Is it the "censorship" of adult material in general, or the fact that it is not evenly applied to adult topiced books the issue? (And I'd agree that all of the books listed above should be labelled as adult.)

Do a search for "Gay erotica" on the front page of amazon. All of the books that you'll find as hits (397 books when I did it just now) have sales ranks, or they wouldn't show on a search from the front page. I guess when Amazon targetted gay material they missed some.

Evidently you can grab specific titles and complain about them. But clearly Amazon's standard (whatever it is and however they came up with it) is not being applied to all books with adult content, whether that content is gay, straight or anything else.

To me, censorship means someone is trying to prevent material from being published and/or read. You can search for "Heather has Two Mommies" and find it on Amazon. That isn't censorship in my book. All of the books listed in the various blogs as being censored are very easily found with a more specific search.

"Heather Has Two Mommies" not only deals with lesbian mothers, it also discusses artificial insemination. An adult topic. I don't know how books are tagged by Amazon, or what process they are using to flag adult books, but if HHTM was tagged with "artificial insemination", it could very well have been autoflagged as 'adult'.

sirbruce · 04-12-2009, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whitearrow

Amazon is now claiming it was a "glitch."

http://www.publishersweekly.com/article/CA6651080.html

Website appears to be down.

Phogg · 04-12-2009, 11:44 PM

A business not listing a book for sale is censorship...

in the same way reading a book you bought for one device on a different device is stealing.

Hyperbole much?

Liviu_5 · 04-12-2009, 11:53 PM

There is a petition circulating around - whoever feels strongly about sign it. I did it on general principles - remember those words "yesterday they came for.."

They still apply today.

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/in-...w-adult-policy

catsittingstill · 04-13-2009, 12:48 AM

I haven't had my reading material chosen for me since I was old enough to walk to the library by myself. I don't want or need Amazon nannying me now.

It's not just erotic fiction whose rankings are being pulled, it's books that help gay kids choose gay friendly colleges, books that explain alternative family structures for young children, biographies of famous gay people and books about gay activism.

And having the rankings pulled means they don't turn up in searches from the main Amazon page. Yes, if you're patient and determined and know exactly what you're looking for, and exactly what category to search in, you can still find the book. Provided, of course, that you don't assume the book didn't turn up on the main page search because Amazon doesn't have it.

So what? It's not like being equal.

I have a good idea--Amazon can put in a "nanny search" button on their search page, for people who are afraid of getting gay cooties. Hey, maybe they can even put in a "pick your nanny" page where you can screen out your favorite combination of memes so they never trouble your search results again.

And in the meantime, they can put all the rankings back the way they were, for us plain vanilla types who aren't afraid of ideas.

Seabound · 04-13-2009, 12:54 AM

From:

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/jack...-a-glitch.html

Quote:

We wanted to know more. We asked for further explanation of the glitch, which has removed the rankings of gay-themed books such as Paul Monette's "Becoming A Man," Virginia Woolf's "Orlando," and others.

And I asked Patty Smith this:
From a layperson's perspective, this glitch does seem to have affected certain types of books more heavily than others. In fact, only one of the top 10 books in your Gay & Lesbian section continues to have a sales ranking (the Kindle version of "The Picture of Dorian Gray"). No other section is similarly affected. Can you comment on that?

The reply:
Unfortunately, I'm not able to comment further. We're working to resolve the issue, but I don't have any further information.

Perhaps we'll learn more Monday.

-- Carolyn Kellogg

carrie · 04-13-2009, 08:29 AM

Signed the petition, Amazon don't need to censor us from anything. I have always believed we are able to decide for ourselves what to look at.

And as for children they cannot purchase from amazon they need their parents card so really the parents should be guiding their children in what they should be seeing.

The petition has gained almost 10'000 signatures in less than 2 days so it's annoyed a lot of people be it aimed at GLBT books or not.

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/in-...w-adult-policy

HarryT · 04-13-2009, 08:33 AM

I'm intrigued: how does "The Picture of Dorian Gray" come to be classified as a "Gay and Lesbian" book?

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04-12-2009, 10:59 PM	#35
Andybaby Wizard Posts: 1,279 Karma: 1002683 Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: New York Device: PRS-700	no, Im sure it is, but it doesnt mean its company policy is all im saying, people have to go though the items by hand to do it. it could very easily be one person, or a small group of people who were told to do one thing, and took it upon themselves to extend it. i have faith im amazon fixing that in a few days

04-12-2009, 11:02 PM	#36
Seabound Steerage Class Posts: 711 Karma: 505995 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Pacific Northwest, USA Device: Won't fit here anymore, see sig for a list of liseuses.	The last thing I will have "faith" on is a company like Amazon.

04-12-2009, 11:11 PM	#37
stormcloude Groupie Posts: 157 Karma: 259661 Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Socal Device: eBookwise 1150, Sony PRS-505, Sony PRS-T1	There is a theory that it's the work of some sort of ultra-conservative "family" organization here. Though I still wouldn't call that a glitch, if it's true. More of a gaping hole in their programming.

04-12-2009, 11:12 PM	#38
GlennD Wizard Posts: 2,105 Karma: 17249026 Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: The Pacific NW Device: sony PRS350, iPhone, iPad	So if Playboy's material, Laurel Hamilton's books, and biographies of Ron Jeremy and Traci Lords are unrated, that'll make everyone happy? Is it the "censorship" of adult material in general, or the fact that it is not evenly applied to adult topiced books the issue? (And I'd agree that all of the books listed above should be labelled as adult.) Do a search for "Gay erotica" on the front page of amazon. All of the books that you'll find as hits (397 books when I did it just now) have sales ranks, or they wouldn't show on a search from the front page. I guess when Amazon targetted gay material they missed some. Evidently you can grab specific titles and complain about them. But clearly Amazon's standard (whatever it is and however they came up with it) is not being applied to all books with adult content, whether that content is gay, straight or anything else. To me, censorship means someone is trying to prevent material from being published and/or read. You can search for "Heather has Two Mommies" and find it on Amazon. That isn't censorship in my book. All of the books listed in the various blogs as being censored are very easily found with a more specific search. "Heather Has Two Mommies" not only deals with lesbian mothers, it also discusses artificial insemination. An adult topic. I don't know how books are tagged by Amazon, or what process they are using to flag adult books, but if HHTM was tagged with "artificial insemination", it could very well have been autoflagged as 'adult'.

04-12-2009, 11:44 PM	#40
Phogg PHD in Horribleness Posts: 2,320 Karma: 23599604 Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: In the ironbound section, near avenue L Device: Just a whole bunch. I guess I am a collector now.	A business not listing a book for sale is censorship... in the same way reading a book you bought for one device on a different device is stealing. Hyperbole much?

04-12-2009, 11:53 PM	#41
Liviu_5 Books and more books Posts: 917 Karma: 69499 Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: White Plains, NY, USA Device: Nook Color, Itouch, Nokia770, Sony 650, Sony 700(dead), Ebk(given)	There is a petition circulating around - whoever feels strongly about sign it. I did it on general principles - remember those words "yesterday they came for.." They still apply today. http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/in-...w-adult-policy

04-13-2009, 12:48 AM	#42
catsittingstill Guru Posts: 643 Karma: 551634 Join Date: Dec 2007 Device: Kindle 1.0.8, iPod Touch, Kindle Keyboard	I haven't had my reading material chosen for me since I was old enough to walk to the library by myself. I don't want or need Amazon nannying me now. It's not just erotic fiction whose rankings are being pulled, it's books that help gay kids choose gay friendly colleges, books that explain alternative family structures for young children, biographies of famous gay people and books about gay activism. And having the rankings pulled means they don't turn up in searches from the main Amazon page. Yes, if you're patient and determined and know exactly what you're looking for, and exactly what category to search in, you can still find the book. Provided, of course, that you don't assume the book didn't turn up on the main page search because Amazon doesn't have it. So what? It's not like being equal. I have a good idea--Amazon can put in a "nanny search" button on their search page, for people who are afraid of getting gay cooties. Hey, maybe they can even put in a "pick your nanny" page where you can screen out your favorite combination of memes so they never trouble your search results again. And in the meantime, they can put all the rankings back the way they were, for us plain vanilla types who aren't afraid of ideas.

04-13-2009, 08:29 AM	#44
carrie Enthusiast Posts: 33 Karma: 212 Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: UK Device: BeBook	Signed the petition, Amazon don't need to censor us from anything. I have always believed we are able to decide for ourselves what to look at. And as for children they cannot purchase from amazon they need their parents card so really the parents should be guiding their children in what they should be seeing. The petition has gained almost 10'000 signatures in less than 2 days so it's annoyed a lot of people be it aimed at GLBT books or not. http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/in-...w-adult-policy

04-13-2009, 08:33 AM	#45
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,544 Karma: 93383043 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	I'm intrigued: how does "The Picture of Dorian Gray" come to be classified as a "Gay and Lesbian" book?

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