Cory Doctorow: "Hardware ebook readers are a dead end"

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by tompe

I do not know if the e-book market is huge. Nearly everybody I saw on trains using there Mobile phone seemed to either play a game or participating in some discussion forum. How many people do you know that reads from a computer and reads without doing anything else hours in a row? I think this is a rare "skill".

I see very few people do that now with books, magazines or newspapers. So I don't consider that a prerequisite to reader success.

Originally Posted by TheLongshot

I disagree. Most "text" is black and white. Newspapers are still mostly black and white. I see little added value in color that would all of a sudden make eBook readers a hot item.

True... but I see a market that hasn't been tapped yet, that of online e-magazines, as being a potential "killer app" for hardware readers. A subscription to a monthly periodical, delivered to you automatically, with lots of color images of your favorite subject, and possibly the ability to save individual photos, articles and links in a "scrapbook" folder, could be a very popular commodity.

Think of the collections of magazines and snipped material that young people would love to be able to carry around with them, all the time, to read or share with others. (Think of the more "adult" material that could be downloaded privately and stored for future--ahem--perusal.) Think of a hardware device that would make the saving of entire mags, or clips and photos, stoopid easy, and present it on a good quality color screen.

I can imagine keeping my entire collection of a particular magazine with me (instead of in boxes in my basement), with folders of supporting articles or snippets that relate to a particular subject. That, to me, would be the MP3 of print, and a reason to buy a hardware reader and take it with me pretty-much everywhere.

And if such a hardware reader became available that could do those things, it could also be used for b/w books and newspapers (actually, more and more newspapers are going full color every day). So, although the e-magazines would be the main draw, they'd bring e-books along with them.

[moz]

I think he's already missed the point.

I bought a dedicated reader because I already have a huge library of ebooks to read on it. They're no more legal than my much larger collection of mp3/ogg/flac files was, and the law has about the same effect. Interestingly, Australia recently changed the law to permit music format-shifting mostly as a recognition that the "crime" is extremely widespread.

I don't think the same will happen with books, simple because mechanical "book rippers" are much less common than cd players. But I suspect I will continue to be able to download enough of what I want to read to make it worth while. The books I buy will no doubt shift to favour ebooks over pbooks, much as I lost interest in bands that only release on vinyl.

The device.. foo, sure the current generation suck in various ways but you get that with anything. They're a huge leap forward from PDAs for reading, and I expect they will continue to improve.

[moz]

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

True... but I see a market that hasn't been tapped yet, that of online e-magazines, as being a potential "killer app" for hardware readers.

I'm currently subscribed to a few magazines on www.exacteditions.com (Velovision in particular) but currently they have to be read on my computer at home because the portable hardware is just not up to it (you really need a 1200x1600 full colour screen). I'm sure that will come, and in the meantime Tor is doing a reasonable impersonation of a science fiction magazine.

What's interesting with the magazine is that the publisher of Velovision has added a small step to the proofing stage that generates the electronic version largely automatically. From his point of view it's not a big marginal cost but there is considerable marginal profit. I think we're both happy

[mores]

Originally Posted by tompe

Yes, but I heard Cory argue (at Worldcon 2007 in Yokohama I think) that devices with multiple functions will probably not succeed as book readers since most people will be distracted by email or other stuff that they can also do on the device.

I guess he can't walk and chew bubble gum at the same time, then.
Forget about driving and listening to music.

Hello?

Sure, there are purists who like to carry around a cellphone for communication, a reader for reading, an iPod for listening to music, a camera for photos, and a bunch of paperback books because "they smell nice" or "they feel nice".
But aren't converged devices the future?
The iPod advanced from a walkman to a videomachine to a PDA, eReaders now surf the net and tiny cellphones take better pictures than my old SLR ?

In german there is the expression "an egg-laying wool-milk-pig", which means something like a swiss army knife - one thing to do it all. This does not exist. Dedicated cameras take better pictures, a TV has better video, and a PS3 has better games than one of the new converged devices. But then again, sometimes you just want one device to do a lot of things and you accept the mediocrity (?) of the results.
I am no professional photographer ... but I can take a snapshot of the car parked behind me, so that if I see a scratch on my bumper, I know who probably did it. I can read a book on my device, and I can read emails on it.

Distraction? That sounds like "Speeds of more than 30MpH will cause permanent brain damage" or "640K is more than enough".

[radleyp]

If you are thinking of selling to a large market, converged devices can be a real problem, for one simple reason: the more they can do, the more complicated they are to use, and complexity becomes the obstacle. I think there's a limit to what most people want a device to do: too many icons, too many button pushes and the device ceases being user-friendly.

[tompe]

It seems that people read books in a very strange way. Reading 10 minutes at at time and then doing something else totally destroy the reading experiecen for me at least. I had mistakenly it seems assumed that that was something very common.

[tsgreer]

I like and respect Cory a lot, but I think he's way off here. I am inclined to think that he has a career as a result of e-book geeks like us. Ok, I could be way off there, he's very talented; but isn't he more of an internet success story? If it wasn't for the internet, would he be as successful right now?

My point is--wait, I don't know what my point is. I guess maybe it's that the very people he is saying won't adapt to e-book readers, are a lot of the same people that read his e-books on an e-book reader. Of course, it will take some time before they become common and cheap, but does anyone seriously think that in the future (near or far) that e-book devices won't be common?!

It may not be our beloved e-ink, but I think it will be something. I find it hard to believe that in 30 years, people will be lugging around big textbooks in college. I think Cory needs to try out an e-reader and then see how logical the e-book concept can be. Price is the only thing stopping us for now.

[Greg Anos]

I'm not certain we can define the "best" device or devices, currently. Is eyestrain the prime consideration? Or is device flexibility the number one priority? And what about battery life? Or solar power driven...Or, or, or.....

I'm not complaining about current technology (much), but different priorities lead to different answers. I think we'll get an all-in-one device for most of the above priorities - in 10-20 years! Right now you have to make trade-offs. And the current e-ink device concept (even though it is poorly implemented in software so far), will fill a growing niche. But it is a niche, and it will grow only so far. It will probably get filled in as technology changes.

Let me give you a current example. I bought a Cybook Gen 1 in Sept 2006. I sprung for the full kit, at $600. It's still my primary e-reader. It weights a Kilo, and has a (10 in) touchscreen but no keyboard and the battery lasts 3 hours. It has a touchcreen keyboard (I think) and nice reader software and file folders but lousy music playing capability. It's what I call the PC side of e-book readers.
In 6 months or so, you'll be able to buy a EEE CP with a 8.9 inch screen (not touchscreen) and the same battery life and weight for the same 600 dollars. You'll get a full computer with a excellent audio and video performance (both have wifi), and the ability to run any standard e-book reading software as well. But the form factor does not provide for a fold-back screen (to look like a PMP player or the Gen 1) so page changing will be a pain if you turn your computer on its side to mimic the narrow, long format of books. Still, at 1024X600, it's better resolution than my Gen 1. It's still an inferior limp-a-long compared to my Gen 1 for e-book reading, but the gap is closing. (And you get so much more other fuctionality!)

On the other hand, I have one of the first Gen 3's as well. The form factor is nice, and so is the e-ink screen for reading. The battery life is superb, and the weight is very light. But the software is rudimentary compared to my Gen 1, to the point where I simply don't use it yet. Maybe after the next firmware upgrade...
In addition, it's strictly a one trick pony. The easy to read screen prevent the device from being used for virtually anything else. So if I need to do other things, I need another device. Nuisance (but I'm used to it.)

(I don't use PDA's. The screen format is just too small for me.)

I think something like a better 8.9 inch EEE PC will win in the long run, and e-books will be just one of a suite of applications. But for today, I would recommend the Gen 3 (after the next firmware upgrade) for pure reading and to carry a second device for every thing else. But I concur with Cory that these are transient devices, to be made obsolete in the future. (But then again, what other digital hardware hasn't been made obsolete over the years? Zip drives, anybody?)

[DaleDe]

Originally Posted by moz

I'm currently subscribed to a few magazines on www.exacteditions.com (Velovision in particular) but currently they have to be read on my computer at home because the portable hardware is just not up to it (you really need a 1200x1600 full colour screen). I'm sure that will come, and in the meantime Tor is doing a reasonable impersonation of a science fiction magazine.

It would seem that the reason you must read these at home is that they require a browser and won't let you download the files. It is a DRM limitation not a portable hardware limitation IMHO.

Dale

[moz]

Originally Posted by DaleDe

It would seem that the reason you must read these at home is that they require a browser and won't let you download the files.

I have downloaded all the files as new editions arrive. It's as easy as hitting "save" in the browser as I go. The problem with reading them on a lissoose is that they're downloaded as large colour jpegs and my wee Sony does not handle them very well. Hitting "save" does not even qualify as a hack, it's just obvious.

As far as multi-function devices go, I'm all for them - the fewer gadgets I have to carry around the better. Having a roll-up USB cable means I can use my lissoose as a USB memory key and makes me less likely to accidentally leave the key somewhere. Bring on the day when I have a sony-size device that folds in half to go in my pocket, is all touchscreen on the inside and functions as a cellphone, music player, scanner/camera and internet browser. I don't have to use all the functions at once, in fact I probably won't, but only having one expensive, fragile device to look after instead of 3 or 4 would make my life easier.

[GreyCat]

Personally I don't want the swiss army knife approach when it comes to my portable electronics. And there is one very important reason for that. Battery life. My mobile phone is dying. Again. (New battery didn't help this time).

It's bad enough that I can't expect my mobile to work unless it's plugged in to an external power source, but if that meant that I couldn't listen to music or read my books while out and about that would be so much worse.

So obviously I'm looking around for a new phone and what do I see? I can get really expensive phones with GPS, cameras and MP3. But I'm just not willing to shell out the money they want for these swiss army knives knowing how long (or not so long) mobile phones seem to last. And of course battery life is not just an issue for my dying phone, but say I forget to charge the battery (which have been known to happen) and none of my portables would be working. I shudder to think of it.

Of course with all the electronics I seem to be lugging around every day (MP3-player, Cybook, dying mobile phone, emergency book light in case my commuter train gets stuck in a tunnel ) I'll either get a strong back or a broken one. Maybe I should start to work out...

Sorry, I'm rambling, but my point is I'm worried about availability (and redundancy?) and prefer to have separate devices knowing that if one is unavailable (must remember to charge the MP3-player tonight) at least there are alternatives.

[shousa]

Originally Posted by mores

I guess he can't walk and chew bubble gum at the same time, then.
Forget about driving and listening to music.

Hello?

Sure, there are purists who like to carry around a cellphone for communication, a reader for reading, an iPod for listening to music, a camera for photos, and a bunch of paperback books because "they smell nice" or "they feel nice".
But aren't converged devices the future?
The iPod advanced from a walkman to a videomachine to a PDA, eReaders now surf the net and tiny cellphones take better pictures than my old SLR ?

In german there is the expression "an egg-laying wool-milk-pig", which means something like a swiss army knife - one thing to do it all. This does not exist. Dedicated cameras take better pictures, a TV has better video, and a PS3 has better games than one of the new converged devices. But then again, sometimes you just want one device to do a lot of things and you accept the mediocrity (?) of the results.
I am no professional photographer ... but I can take a snapshot of the car parked behind me, so that if I see a scratch on my bumper, I know who probably did it. I can read a book on my device, and I can read emails on it.

Distraction? That sounds like "Speeds of more than 30MpH will cause permanent brain damage" or "640K is more than enough".

I 100% agree with all your comments from top to bottom.

I love my dedicated devices - each does its job perfectly. My 505 is simply perfect - I even love the software on the 505 since because of libprs500 I have everything organized into collections.

[Amalthia]

I just don't agree with this guy Cory at all. I also don't want my book reader to turn into a swiss army knife either. I love that all my PRS-505 does is display books/mangas. (though I really think they can work on adding zip/rar so people can add their mangas more easily)

I love that the battery life lasts for over a week, and I can't imagine why color is necessary for reading. (I guess if I was reading comics on it that might be nice but most of my mangas are in black and white anyways)

Basically, I think there is a market for ebook readers, yes it would help if the price dropped but whoever said it needed to drop to 10 dollars is being very unrealistic. Good MP3 players still cost 30-60 dollars, and that's after years of being out on the market. Ipods aren't cheap either. What needs to drop in price is the ebooks as well as fixing the bugs in current devices. (maybe there should be a wide range of ebooks designed for different purposes, since it seems like everyone wants to turn their ebook reader into a mini-laptop)

[TheJohnNewton]

Frankly what does it matter? Those who like the current line of ereaders will buy them. Those that don't wont. Those who don't read won't care at all. Over time new models will come out with more/different features. Some may be hits some may die failures. Is this news to anyone?

The important trend is the overall direction toward more use of electronic files rather than paper files. Having more content available is important. What actual physical device you read them on not so important. Based on other electronic device life cycles you can make a pretty good assumption that the capabilities of the devices will improve while the prices decline. As prices decline more people will be interested. Perhaps at some point multiple functions will converge into a single device. I find it hard to believe that at some point in the future be it 10 years or 100 electronic files won't be the norm and printed paper the exception.

The one issue brought up that I totally agree on is that having all these rediculous incompatable formats doesn't do anything good for anyone. Orphaned formats are an issue. Ideally any file should be useable on any reading device or reading software. Short of that every file type should be convertable to plain text or some standard format to avoid the whole orphan issue. There really is no excuse not to have this today.

[DaleDe]

Originally Posted by moz

I have downloaded all the files as new editions arrive. It's as easy as hitting "save" in the browser as I go. The problem with reading them on a lissoose is that they're downloaded as large colour jpegs and my wee Sony does not handle them very well. Hitting "save" does not even qualify as a hack, it's just obvious.

I presume this means you must save them one page at a time?

Dale