An abundance of Claras, a derth of Libra(s)

[BionicGecko]

Originally Posted by sydmalicious

I know folks have been awaiting the color, but outside of Manga/comics, what is the benefit of the color Libra?

Honestly not much; it’s fun to see your book covers in color, and perhaps the odd illustration or map which happens to be in color in your book, but you won’t notice it for 95%+ of the time. Yet when I go back to my non-color readers, I miss the colors in that 5%.

It’s basically an unnecessary luxury you get used to having and somewhat miss when you don’t.

[Aleron Ives]

Unfortunately, that luxury comes at the cost of significantly worse contrast, so if you're sensitive to that kind of thing, having colour covers also greatly degrades the actual reading experience. Some people are bothered by the "rainbow" effect of the colour matrix when reading greyscale content, and others are not. YMMV.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Aleron Ives

Unfortunately, that luxury comes at the cost of significantly worse contrast, so if you're sensitive to that kind of thing, having colour covers also greatly degrades the actual reading experience. Some people are bothered by the "rainbow" effect of the colour matrix when reading greyscale content, and others are not. YMMV.

I'm bothered that the Libra 2 was disconnected for what is essentially a much worse device.

[BionicGecko]

Originally Posted by Aleron Ives

Unfortunately, that luxury comes at the cost of significantly worse contrast, so if you're sensitive to that kind of thing, having colour covers also greatly degrades the actual reading experience. Some people are bothered by the "rainbow" effect of the colour matrix when reading greyscale content, and others are not. YMMV.

While the color screen is undoubtedly darker than normal b/w eInk screens, to be fair I don’t find the contrast to be terrible with the light on; in fact I think it’s better than on my Oasis (but not as good as my Voyage). The text is very sharp. I’m also perhaps one of the lucky ones who don’t see (or mind) that “rainbow” effect. What does bother me is the left-right lighting gradient, which is significantly worse on the Libra Colour than on my Kindles. The screen being quite dark pretty much requires the light to be on at all times when reading, so it is something to consider.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by BionicGecko

While the color screen is undoubtedly darker than normal b/w eInk screens, to be fair I don’t find the contrast to be terrible with the light on; in fact I think it’s better than on my Oasis (but not as good as my Voyage). The text is very sharp. I’m also perhaps one of the lucky ones who don’t see (or mind) that “rainbow” effect. What does bother me is the left-right lighting gradient, which is significantly worse on the Libra Colour than on my Kindles. The screen being quite dark pretty much requires the light to be on at all times when reading, so it is something to consider.

From what's been said by some owners, the Libra Colour needs about 20-30% light to match the Libra 2 with no light on. And because of the high % the light needs, the battery is not as good as that of the Libra 2. Overall, the Libra Colour has a worse battery (based on usage) and poor contrast because it's too dark.

[Aleron Ives]

Originally Posted by BionicGecko

While the color screen is undoubtedly darker than normal b/w eInk screens, to be fair I don’t find the contrast to be terrible with the light on

That's why I qualified my statement with "if you're sensitive to that kind of thing". The contrast is objectively worse on Kaleido screens, but it's still good enough that many people don't care, which is why Kaleido is successful. People just need to know what they're getting into, as Kaleido is not a pure upgrade: it's a tradeoff.

[Quoth]

But is Kaleido a success?

It's a niche in a niche.

[Aleron Ives]

Onyx, Pocketbook, MobiScribe, Kobo, and possibly others are continuing to release new models with Kaleido 3 panels, so yes, it's a success. Companies don't continue making products unless people are buying them.

[Liesse]

Originally Posted by sydmalicious

I know folks have been awaiting the color, but outside of Manga/comics, what is the benefit of the color Libra?



I think I have a Sage or Forma, I bought it a couple years ago and I love it; BW is perfect for my use case. I am just curious what other folks would use it for other than Manga/comics.

My Libra Colour is faster than my Libra 2. Things like paging through the library are faster, I think. I also prefer the ergonomics of my Libra Colour and find it much more comfortable to hold : I find the 'ridge' part of it less sharp somehow and it works better for my hands. I feel that the device is lighter. I prefer reading with it over my Libra 2.

I realise the headline is the greyer screen, but I don't notice that when I am reading.

Sent from my SM-S921B using Tapatalk

[Quoth]

Originally Posted by Aleron Ives

Onyx, Pocketbook, MobiScribe, Kobo, and possibly others are continuing to release new models with Kaleido 3 panels, so yes, it's a success. Companies don't continue making products unless people are buying them.

Only Kobo of those has significant sales. We don't know what percentage profit is from Kaleido sales.

It depends on definition of success. Does it mean "making some profit", or making at least a third, or a majority, or being the dominant product.

Most people read ebooks on phones.
Amazon has over 92% of ebook sales in English.
Amazon Kindle by far the best selling ereader. Kobo maybe #2 a long way behind. The other ereader companies are both tiny and not part of larger companies apart from the Nook (Barnes & Nobel & Waterstones owned by big guys).

Amazon's colour solution is the Fire range. They will likely do a Kaleido eventually if it's not killed off by long battery life matt screen tablets.

Kobo has two Kaleido models. They are inferior for novels to mono-ink (and always will be poorer text, contrast, brightness, resolution) and novels is the main driver for eink. Comics is the only worth while colour content and that's niche. Other colour applications are even more niche due to the very poor Kaleido colour rendition.

Mono eink will outlast Kaleido. It's a fad.

[BionicGecko]

I have to say I’m quite surprised at the hatred here for color eInk readers. Mobileread is the primary forum on the internet where e-reader enthusiasts get together and share their love for this technology. I feel we should be excited about any progress being made in this area, even though imperfect. Color eInk panels today are certainly much better than the original eInk panels from the mid aughts, and nobody was complaining about them back then, except those saying it was just a fad.

It is frustrating because the technology really is in fact quite good. The screen is darker, yes, but the text is plenty sharp (as I mentioned above, IMO better than my Kindle Oasis 3, a device which until very recently was the flagship in Amazon’s e-reader line). The refresh is fast, ghosting is kept under control, and it’s undeniably nice to be able to see covers and illustrations in color.

Commercial adoption of color eInk in its early stages is a necessary step for the technology to progress, and I think this community should be cheering at the fact that color eInk panels are now a real, viable option, instead of endlessly criticizing its downsides.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Liesse

My Libra Colour is faster than my Libra 2. Things like paging through the library are faster, I think. I also prefer the ergonomics of my Libra Colour and find it much more comfortable to hold : I find the 'ridge' part of it less sharp somehow and it works better for my hands. I feel that the device is lighter. I prefer reading with it over my Libra 2.

I realise the headline is the greyer screen, but I don't notice that when I am reading.

Sent from my SM-S921B using Tapatalk

If Kobo ever releases a Libra BW, it will be faster then the Libra Colour.

[Quoth]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

If Kobo ever releases a Libra BW, it will be faster then the Libra Colour.

Or the same speed. The coiour has no effect on speed in the mono mode. It may or may not have any effect displaying colour content depending on the display controller. Without a dedicated controller the 2 x 2 layout interface is very much slower than RGB stripes, but they can't do 1/3rd width rectangular pixels on eink, so Triton was 1/3rd horizontal resolution and as it was LCD panel style stripes covering the entire pixels it was extremely dark.

[Quoth]

Originally Posted by BionicGecko

I have to say I’m quite surprised at the hatred here for color eInk readers. Mobileread is the primary forum on the internet where e-reader enthusiasts get together and share their love for this technology.

It's realism, not hate. The big advantages of eink were the resolution, sharpness, matt screen (which was always available for a cost on ANY display technology, but standard on eink to help sell it). Reading novels doesn't need loads of grey levels, even the original 4 rather than 16 would have been good enough if the contrast and brightness was as good as Pearl or Carta. Also long battery/charge run time.

So mono eink was and is ideal for novels. Colour needs far more than 16 levels. The filters needed for colour would reduce brightness to about 1/5th if any good. They deliberately made the filters poor and only partially covering the pixels to alleviate the darkness. Because eink uses front light rather than rear light, the darkness of any colour filter is doubled compared to LCD.
Also because the 300 dpi 1:1 aspect pixels is state of the art for over 10 year on eink, the colour is only 150 dpi. The claimed 300 dpi for mono is dishonest because it's a 300 dpi panel with printed coloured dots on every pixel, thus inherently the Clara Colour is worse than the Clara BW for novels. The Libra Colour is inherently poorer than the Libra or Libra 2 for novels.

Almost all use of eink is to read novels.
The Kaleido Color isn't new. It's about 4 years old, though tweaked, The best colours are pastel. Dark or desaturated pale colours are quickly indistinguishable because the mono panel has only black, white and 14 grey levels at best. CRT, QLED, OLED, Crystal LED, Plasma, LCD, DLP etc all have 64 to over 1000 levels of each pixel, typically 254 with fully on and off.

Matt surfaces have been available (no glare or shine or reflection) over 40 years. They just became hard to get due to fashion and cost saving. They are now more common again on phones, tablets, monitors and TV. Battery capacity and run time can also be good with eink like reading times now.

So the only advantage really of eink now is for mono screens to read novels and nice form factors for 6″ to 8″. Sadly the 5″ eink are gone and larger than 8″ eink are very niche for PDFs, and most ot them poorer for PDF than a tablet half the price.

If ACeP was 20x faster and 300 dpi, then there would be some point to colour eink. As it is, Kaleido 3 is a disadvantage for novels and only really viable for comic style content (which doesn't have quality colour), but the 7″ is a bit small and the 10″ models are x2 to x3 the price of a better tablet with a matt screen.

It's not hate, but realism. Look at web pages and adverts. Very many for Kaieido are misleading or downright lies.

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by BionicGecko

I have to say I’m quite surprised at the hatred here for color eInk readers. Mobileread is the primary forum on the internet where e-reader enthusiasts get together and share their love for this technology. I feel we should be excited about any progress being made in this area, even though imperfect. Color eInk panels today are certainly much better than the original eInk panels from the mid aughts, and nobody was complaining about them back then, except those saying it was just a fad.

It is frustrating because the technology really is in fact quite good. The screen is darker, yes, but the text is plenty sharp (as I mentioned above, IMO better than my Kindle Oasis 3, a device which until very recently was the flagship in Amazon’s e-reader line). The refresh is fast, ghosting is kept under control, and it’s undeniably nice to be able to see covers and illustrations in color.

Commercial adoption of color eInk in its early stages is a necessary step for the technology to progress, and I think this community should be cheering at the fact that color eInk panels are now a real, viable option, instead of endlessly criticizing its downsides.

The reason for the hate is discontinuation of the b/w Libra 2 (one of the best eink screens currently in existence) with nothing to replace it but the Libra Colour, which is a poorer experience when reading b/w novels.

Not everyone wants or needs color eink. Almost everything I read on my Kobos is black and white. Now Kobo took away their best b/w screen and replaced it with the Kaleido screen, which 1) I don't need and 2) is not as good as the previous b/w generation. Why should I be happy over this?

There would be a lot less hate if Kobo had kept the b/w Libra, like they kept the b/w Clara. Why they didn't is a total mystery to me and many others, and yes, a disappointment. Hence the bitterness.