02-28-2010, 02:12 PM | #301 |
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The sample was created using MathML. It does have embedded fonts which is which is part of why it doesn't really work in the web browsers.
As for Calibre's viewer, open a ticket and attach the ePub since clearly it's a flaw with Calibre's viewer. |
02-28-2010, 02:36 PM | #302 | |
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If FBReader doesn't want to follow the spec, fine, but it can't be used as a representative ePub reader in any manner. |
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02-28-2010, 02:40 PM | #303 | |
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In a world of standards, it all can be done with very simple UIs. To stay in topic, wich format will win, there are actually two answers: 1. The one with the hardest to circumvent DRM schema (if it will ever exist) 2. The one which is proprietary to the coolest device in the market (if iPad had some function in it, other than coolness, I'd say iBooks, but I dont believe enough people will buy those useless bricks, no matter how cool they are...) |
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02-28-2010, 02:51 PM | #304 | |
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02-28-2010, 03:03 PM | #305 | |
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That's something which can be handled on the device, but a specification for it would be nice... (And it should be trivial to do the basics like margin settings, fonts and font size via a GUI menu, for that matter) |
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02-28-2010, 04:04 PM | #306 | |
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I hope you realize that this whole side-topic is irrelevant. I stated that the document presented did not work in fbreader. It doesn't. |
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02-28-2010, 04:45 PM | #307 | |
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Derek |
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02-28-2010, 04:57 PM | #308 | |
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But given the Nook does it's DRM, both kinds, though ADE and the fact that Sony are phasing out BBeB for ePub... my point stands. The choice is Mobipocket DRM or ADE DRM. |
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02-28-2010, 05:02 PM | #309 | |||||||
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It's not really worth arguing about. Here is a case where you'll have to admit that yours is a lost cause. CSS is here to stay, like it or not. Quote:
What I actually explicitly advocated for the casual user is WYSIWYM, which is easier to use than WYSIWYG. Quote:
In any case, number of users does not reflect quality. (Consider Internet Explorer.) Quote:
To suggest that traditional WYSIWYG is the only way to allow ordinary people to create content is just incorrect. And I think most ordinary people aren't interested in creating style, just content. And even if they did care about style, as I noted, it is entirely possible to create a very intuitive interface for creating CSS. And even if there weren't such a thing, it is really not very complicated. I am not a web designer. I have no formal training in programming. My degrees are all in the humanities. But I don't find CSS in the least intimidating. Quote:
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In any case, dedicated eBook readers that support ePub are very rare in the grand scheme of things (since that excludes Kindles). Most people who would be able to read it at all would be reading it on a web browser, or something calling upon web browser technology on a netbook or tablet. If you were the author of that document, would you trust it being distributed only in that form? Be honest. But even if these compatibility problems didn't exist, it still wouldn't look as good as a PDF made for my reader. Quote:
Last edited by frabjous; 02-28-2010 at 05:25 PM. |
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02-28-2010, 05:17 PM | #310 | |||||
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(And "intuitive" means it cannot contain ANY visible scripting, let alone coding ofc...) |
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02-28-2010, 05:32 PM | #311 | |||||
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And while no other browser does CSS perfectly, everything except IE is close enough that's it's not really an issue. And IE's noncompliance is deliberate. Quote:
But even if some mark-up tags remain, surely they're not rocket science. You yourself did a virtual "/sarcasm" earlier, which is something i'm seeing more and more of, which suggests people could easily get used to such things. Quote:
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Last edited by frabjous; 02-28-2010 at 05:45 PM. |
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02-28-2010, 05:49 PM | #312 | |||
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Indeed, this forum is unusual these days in that it shows the tags. Most of the forums I use simply display the formatting in the edit box. Heck, 99% of my Foswiki editing these days doesn't involve dropping into tag-editing mode. (And the other 1% is when I'm effectively writing applications in Foswiki, which is precisely the sort of thing I'd expect to be scripting!*) Quote:
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Still waiting on the CSS editor which has an intuitive interface... *Even then: I've worked at a games company where their editor used a visual scripting system. There was NO textual scripting interface (which has a few drawbacks, but they're not really relevant to this discussion, or for 99% of what you do with it) and it allowed VERY rapid prototyping and development! The best designer couldn't code one line, but did some amazing things with that engine! Last edited by DawnFalcon; 02-28-2010 at 05:55 PM. |
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02-28-2010, 06:02 PM | #313 | |||||
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CSS is great. For example, I override MobilRead's CSS and so for me it looks like this: We should have such control over ebooks, yes. Quote:
Sure, it doesn't give you as much control as writing the CSS yourself, but it's definitely good enough for casual users to design their own pages. The important thing is that this is kept separate from the interfaces where you add content. Quote:
In any case, if you're going to make accusations about something, shouldn't you know what it is? Last edited by frabjous; 02-28-2010 at 06:18 PM. |
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02-28-2010, 06:18 PM | #314 |
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Because it strongly affects ongoing maintenance and usability. In this day and age, anything not using XML needs a darn good excuse (And CSS in particular dosn't have one!). Why should I be locked into TeX parsers rather than XML ones?
(And sure, you can convert. But conversion tends to be a lossy process, and one which needs direct script editing to fix...) There are only a very few, very poor WYSIWYG editors for web pages as a direct result of the current implementation of CSS, and HTML5 looks to make the problem considerably worse, not better, by upping the complexity without addressing the usability issues. WYSIWYM is based on a fundamentally different philosophy to WYSIWYG (not "quasi" anything), and there's a good reason it's not used by mass market programs! Yes, software needs to be smarter to come up with sane solutions within a WYSIWYG GUI, but it's been managed in most fields: There should be a web editor sitting alongside Word and alongside Writer. (Sure, they can save-as HTML themselves. The results are very crude...) Again, there's not a generally applicable, easy-to-use web editor precisely because of the particular way CSS+HTML is structured. The lack of such carries the argument, unless and until one exists: professional web designers script directly, and they've structured the web's architecture around their desires (I'll admit mostly unintentionally, but it's a positive feedback cycle because they're the people with the most time to dedicate to it) and needs. As one example - because of the non-compliant CSS implementations of every major browser, a WYSIWYG editor can either only create a page which looks good in a given rendering engine, or it needs to support multiple rendering engines (Not impossibly, but a pain in the ass) and be able to handle the gross changes between them automagically so far as is possible, which dramatically adds to the complexity of the task. And CSS 5 support looks to be even more fragmented than support than 2.1! (Oh, and my interface with these forums is a greasemonkey-modified Firefox interface which works quite differently from the standard view, but it's going well beyond CSS changes...most people find it confusing, but the author and several other people such as myself like it. Now if he can actually get round to replacing a certain lump of code and making it freely distributable...) Last edited by DawnFalcon; 02-28-2010 at 06:28 PM. |
02-28-2010, 06:25 PM | #315 | |
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I don't know whether or not a good WYSIWY-whatever editor exists for web pages. I have no need of one. But nothing you've written has provided a single reason for why there couldn't be one. I even asked you for a reason, and you've yet to provide one. You've simply asserted over and over that it's a fact. Anyway, CSS is a fait accompli. You're going to have resign yourself to that fact. Aside from IE, CSS noncompliance is really not that bad... and certainly it's fine for the needs of the casual user. Last edited by frabjous; 02-28-2010 at 06:28 PM. |
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