Best device for making annotations ?

[Yeti]

Hey Kev, no need to hold back mate. Just say it the way you see it.

[Sweetpea]

The main reason, I think, is battery life. There's also a very popular reflective LCD reader that has its share of fans. The main problem of LCD screens is the battery life. That's simply much shorter (even of the Ipad, which does have a nice battery life) than the average e-ink device.

Also, you can't compare reading from a computer screen to reading from a hand-held device. I wouldn't even think of reading a book on my computer, but I've done so on my handheld devices. You can't really sit comfortably (for reading) behind a screen, and lugging a laptop around also doesn't make for comforable reading. I bet, that if you have a, let's say, 19" e-ink screen as monitor (let's forget for a moment that it's not made for it...), I doubt you'd read a whole book on it, even though the technology is perfectly suited for it.

[Alexander Turcic]

Kevin welcome to the MR forums. Please take the time to review our guidelines. You are free to disagree with anyone's opinion, but please refrain from name calling. It is not only disrespectful, but it also doesn't help you in supporting your views. Thank you.
Alex
Moderator

[KevinBurke]

Originally Posted by Sweetpea

The main reason, I think, is battery life. There's also a very popular reflective LCD reader that has its share of fans. The main problem of LCD screens is the battery life. That's simply much shorter (even of the Ipad, which does have a nice battery life) than the average e-ink device.

Also, you can't compare reading from a computer screen to reading from a hand-held device. I wouldn't even think of reading a book on my computer, but I've done so on my handheld devices. You can't really sit comfortably (for reading) behind a screen, and lugging a laptop around also doesn't make for comforable reading. I bet, that if you have a, let's say, 19" e-ink screen as monitor (let's forget for a moment that it's not made for it...), I doubt you'd read a whole book on it, even though the technology is perfectly suited for it.

If there were no ereaders in existance but only e-ink and LCD computer screens then I have no doubt that I would have read entire books on the e-ink computer screen by now. In fact around the year 2004 I had tons of ebooks but no suitable generation of ereaders to read them with (at least not in my price range). I had them on my computer, with first a CRT and then LCD, but never managed to read one. You don't know what you are talking about.

[KevinBurke]

Originally Posted by Alexander Turcic

Kevin welcome to the MR forums. Please take the same to review our guidelines. You are free to disagree with anyone's opinion, but please refrain from name calling. It is not only disrespectful, but it also doesn't he'll you in supporting your views. Thank you.

Alex
Moderator

Argumentum ad personams are usually used when people are losing an argument, by most people. However, I use them differently. I am not the average man. When people make stupid or absurd statements I can't seem to help but insult them. The only safe rule then is not to argue with everyone you meet but only with people you know possess a certain self-respect not to advance absurdities and will yield to reason and cherish the truth. It stands to reason then that barely one man in one hundred is worth my arguing with. Remember on the tree of silence hangs the fruit of peace. Also the reason why men are silenced is because they speak the truth. The reason men are silenced is not because they speak falsely, but because they speak the truth. This is because if men speak falsehoods, their own words can be used against them; while if they speak truly, there is nothing which can be used against them -- except force. So I may be breaking a rule technically but it seems likely you want to silence me for speaking the truth. I come from the OpenBSD culture where people who make dumb statements are flamed. Harry deserved to get flamed in my opinion. How is it not self-evident that for reading books an LCD is inferior to E-ink ? It is so obvious only an idiot would argue in favor of LCD for this specific purpose. It is not that I am consciously trying to break your rules but I am a creature of habit and I come from a certain culture that ingrained these habits in myself. I simply will only argue with people worthy of arguing with in the future on this forum (necessarily a small minority of worthy people). That is the best way I can avoid breaking your rules.

[Alexander Turcic]

Kevin, as a former admin of various Freebsd boxes I believe I know that culture you're referring to well, but please understand and respect that here we are trying to be a family-friendly community where flame wars are not tolerated. It is how it has worked best for our particular case. Thanks!

[Nate the great]

Originally Posted by KevinBurke

LCD is LCD and it can't compete with E-ink. If its LCD based it is a complete joke to serious book readers; if you don't think so you then you are an elementary sophomore reader rather than a serious analytical and syntopical (graduate level reader) reader. Sure the mechanics of of analytical and syntopical reading can be carried out, with lcd annotations and notes, but you just can't sustain long reading times on them for it to be practical enough.

I'm sorry but you're wrong. I have several LCD based e-reader and I can read on them for quite a while. E-ink is only good IMO for some types of reading, not all.

damn short battery life GTG

[gastan]

"Argumentum ad personams are usually used when people are losing an argument, by most people. However, I use them differently." I doubt that very, very much.

"I am not the average man." I do believe that. Based on your writing I believe you are much less than the average man.

"It stands to reason then that barely one man in one hundred is worth my arguing with." Dude, I am just now picking myself up off the floor and wiping my eyes. I can't remember when I last heard such arrogance and conceit. Maybe it was poor Ignatius J. Reilly, who also didn't have a clue.

"...it seems likely you want to silence me for speaking the truth." No, if you should be silenced it should be for arrogance, conceit, hubris, pomposity, pretentiousness .... (how many synonyms are there?) pure and simple.

"How is it not self-evident that for reading books an LCD is inferior to E-ink?" Perhaps self-evidence makes it true in your vainglorious eyes but in the end it is still just an opinion. Unless you have some facts to back up your "argument," of course. Do you have any?

"...I am a creature of habit and I come from a certain culture that ingrained these habits in myself." Seven words ..... "The unexamined life is not worth living."

"I simply will only argue with people worthy of arguing with in the future on this forum (necessarily a small minority of worthy people). That is the best way I can avoid breaking your rules." Oh Lord. It's too bad you weren't present at Creation. I'm sure you could have given some useful hints.

[HarryT]

Kevin,

As Alex said, we value politeness in our community here. You'll earn a lot more respect by saying "I disagree with your opinion...", or even better, "I disagree with your opinion because..." than with "anyone who thinks <x> is clearly an idiot". 'Nuff said.

A little about myself. By training a physicist (PhD in radio astronomy); worked in science for 10 years or so (UK nuclear power industry), then realised that IT paid better, and have been a professional systems programmer and software developer for the last 20 odd years. Been reading eBooks since approx 1991 (started on a Psion 3 PDA); until about 2006 on various LCD devices - PDAs, Palms, etc - and since 2006 have owned and used pretty much every eInk device on the market. Currently have about half a dozen different eInk devices and - yes - an Apple iPad.

Now, having read many thousand books on LCD devices, and probably 1000+ on eInk devices too, your views to the contrary, I reckon I actually am in a pretty good position to advise anyone on their pros and cons. You may of course disagree - I've no problem with that (as long as you do it politely) but I very much hope you'll do me the courtesy of not calling me an "idiot" simply because I hold an opinion that differs from your own.

What are the strengths of LCD devices? Let's see - I can think of a few:

- Instant page turns. Very useful for rapidly flipping through the pages of a book to find something you know is there, but aren't quite sure where.

- Instant zooming and scrolling. This is especially handy for things like PDFs - most readers have smaller screen than technical PDFs are formatted for, and the ability to zoom in on a graph or chart to see fine detail with no delay is very handy - especially for complex technical PDFs.

- Immediately response when annotating.

- Full support for colour. Useful for some types of material.

- Larger screens a lot easier to come by.

- Much better contrast than eInk. White whites, and black blacks, compared with the light grey/dark grey of eInk.

- You can read in the dark. Obvious, I know, but a genuine boon for those who want to read in bed.

Now, what are the pros of eInk?

- You can read it in full sunlight. Very useful for some people. Not at all useful for others. Probably more useful in Australia than England.

- Excellent battery life. Many eInk devices will run for weeks on a battery charge. Don't totally knock LCD on this basis, though; there are several devices on the market which will give you around 20h on a battery charge).

- Generally lightweight and highly portable (though there are exceptions).

- None of the eyestrain that some people experience from reading light-emitting screens for long periods.


So, it's a matter of weighing up the pros and cons and deciding which is better for you. There's one thing that's certain, and that's that there's no one device that's right for everyone. If there were such a device, we wouldn't need this forum.

Now, happy to discuss the matter further if you wish. Politely, of course.

[rahulm]

What is wrong with this guy?

[vxf]

Just my two cents...

I think we all differ... and our eyes do differ... I am finishing my PhD in Finance and, as any other doctoral student, I read a lot. And so do my colleagues. I, for one, can't stand reading on LCDs.

I did use an Ipad for a while (bought it hoping to use it for annotations) and gave it to my dad. My eyes would just water after a while and I got terrible headaches after reading for 6+ hours. Same if I sit in front of a PC without taking breaks.

With the PRS-900, I don't have that problem.

Sure, annotations were easier on the Ipad, but if I can't read for long... it's a pointless advantage. And don't get me wrong - an Ipad does have other advantages I recognize... but it just won't do as a reader FOR ME.

Now, some of my colleagues don't seem to have a problem with LCDs. One of my office mates simply reads everything on a monitor, another one on his Asus tablet. Eye strain seems to affect them less.

But one advantage of e-ink is doubtless... battery life. I often fly Oklahoma-Italy and the trip takes me 20+ hours. My PRS900 loses one tick of battery life... if that...

On the other side, reading in direct sunlight has never worked for me. Call me unlucky, but I seem to constantly get defective devices that fade in the sun - from SONY or Amazon. Go figure. I got tired of asking for replacements. But my PRS900 is NOT readable in direct sunlight - the text just disappears.

On the other side, I am lucky (???) in so far that I don't have a life, haven't seen a beach in years, nor any sunlight, as my office doesn't even have a window. Great life, being a PhD student.

[Sweetpea]

Originally Posted by vxf

But one advantage of e-ink is doubtless... battery life. I often fly Oklahoma-Italy and the trip takes me 20+ hours. My PRS900 loses one tick of battery life... if that...

That's the main reason I bought my BeBook Mini. Battery life. If I go camping, I want to have a device that lasts the entire trip. (usually, we go from camping to camping, in a small tent, so generally no way to charge devices).

Originally Posted by vxf

On the other side, reading in direct sunlight has never worked for me. Call me unlucky, but I seem to constantly get defective devices that fade in the sun - from SONY or Amazon. Go figure. I got tired of asking for replacements. But my PRS900 is NOT readable in direct sunlight - the text just disappears.

I tried my device in direct sunlight. Not that I like to read in direct sunlight, I prefer the shade, but I put my reader on the table outside. Open, and turned on. I left it there for a few hours (while I fled into the coolness of our house ) and when I came back, it was still looking the same.

Originally Posted by vxf

On the other side, I am lucky (???) in so far that I don't have a life, haven't seen a beach in years, nor any sunlight, as my office doesn't even have a window. Great life, being a PhD student.

[vxf]

I didn't want to open Pandora's box with the whole 'fading in the sunlight' issue. But from what I read here and on other forums, some screens, presumably made by LG, had some manufacturing defect which leads to them fading in the sun - and makes them actually less 'sharp' otherwise as well.

My office mate and I both have SONY PRS900s. We can put them side-by-side under the sun, and the screen on my device fades, his doesn't. In the shade, they look similar, but the background on mine is just a tad more greenish. We bought the devices on the same day, from the same retailer.

I called SONY and had mine replaced. The replacement has the same problem.

And I had a similar experience with the Kindle2.

[KunoK]

Harry, I seek your advice (and value that you share your experience).
I think I will expand my reader collection, I think my choice is between Onyx 60 and one of the yet to be released pocketbooks (602, 603). You have not tried a 602 or 603, but you do have experience with pocketbook software. I am after an epub device, with a touch screen, an english dictionary which can be easily accessed using the touch screen, and best possible readabilty. I don't mind if it is good at displying DRMed epubs, as long as it is good at free epubs.
Reply from others are of course welcome as well. Any thoughts?

[PhishStyx]

Originally Posted by HarryT

For indoor use, however, the iPad has numerous benefits. Instant page turns and annotation (the slow refresh rate of eInk leads to a somewhat annoying time lag of a fraction of a second when annotating a book), and a much, much wider range of software available.

There's no stylus for the iPad; how would you annotate on it?