Secret Copyright Law Reported

[MovieBird]

Originally Posted by Hogan

Who is the "someone" you talk about? I can only assume its someone from the US because when people from Europe say, "West" they generally mean, Western Europe and the US. Its attitudes like yours in the quote above that make people from Europe roll their eyes, when they hear things like that! There is a world outside of the US

This is all off topic, but "someone" is a friend in the Netherlands that refers to us as the West. "You guys in the West." However, that could very well be because he is already in Western Europe, or he could just be out of touch.

Although, during my time in Japan, I experienced the Japanese calling the USA the West, even though we are East of them. Usually something like "Western style" which to me would mean cowboy boots. When I say Europe, I don't usually mean Croatia, or Estonia. Generally, I'm referring to something happening in Britain, France, or Germany.

As far as my attitude, and that of other arrogant Americans, I think you're reading into it what you want to see, rather than what is actually said, or intended.

[rireed3]

Originally Posted by MovieBird

This is all off topic, but "someone" is a friend in the Netherlands that refers to us as the West. "You guys in the West." However, that could very well be because he is already in Western Europe, or he could just be out of touch.

...

As far as my attitude, and that of other arrogant Americans, I think you're reading into it what you want to see, rather than what is actually said, or intended.

Stop digging.

[HarryT]

Please keep this thread on topic, and start a new thread in the Lounge if you wish to discuss the meaning of the word "West".

Thank you.

[Moderator]

[Hogan]

Originally Posted by MovieBird

As far as my attitude, and that of other arrogant Americans, I think you're reading into it what you want to see, rather than what is actually said, or intended.

Yes, its a little off topic alright but I think you steered it off topic by jumping on Kellhus the way you did, just because he was giving a viewpoint which doesn't match your own. I dont know what you mean by, "what you want to see" because I dont have any particular agenda. What I do know is that when you come out with statements like:

Originally Posted by MovieBird

When someone says the "West", they generally mean the USA, seeing as we have the most economic, and political impact of any nation in the world.

I dont know many fellow Europeans who wouldnt react to that statement in the way that I did I'm not sure what you meant by it, but arrogance is the way it reads (to me as a non-American). Besides, why wouldnt people just say "USA" if the "West" was equivalent to the "USA" in their eyes?

I you get a chance to watch any of the European news channels I think you'll see we dont refer to the "USA" as the "West". Have a look at the Wikipedia definition at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_world.

Anyway, back on topic: I believe that governments have already too much power in terms on spying on their citizens. Yes, the terrorism issue is out there, but unfortunately most governments have proven untrustworthy when it comes to the usage of their powers for the right reasons.

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by Sonist

WOW!

This should be FRONT PAGE news.

As much as those of us hanging around here regularly discuss and obsess about copyright law, the average person doesn't give copyright a second thought. I'm not surprised no one's making a big deal about this on the major news services and networks.

[wodin]

West is Kanaga, Aleutian Islands, Alaska, USA. Go any farther west than that and and you will cross the International Date Line and be in the East.

Therefor, yes; West IS in the USA!

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by Sonist

I think this is the whole point. And the whole point of discussing it behind "closed doors" is, so that the public doesn't get riled up about some of the more intrusive enforcement tools discussed.

That's true. OTOH, "the public" has already proven to be fairly intractable when it comes to any issues that impact or change security (until, of course, a building comes down or a club blows up, and then the public demands action). And if the govts consider this a security issue, it's not surprising that they don't plan on consulting the public about it.

I agree the discussions should be open, but I wouldn't expect it to alter the govt's positions or decisions in any way. And as I agree that international copyright desperately needs to be updated to properly include digital files and global communication systems, I'm just glad they're actually doing something.

[Hogan]

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

As much as those of us hanging around here regularly discuss and obsess about copyright law, the average person doesn't give copyright a second thought. I'm not surprised no one's making a big deal about this on the major news services and networks.

True, but it looks like what is being proposed here, is giving the various governments, the ability to watch ISP traffic under the guise of trying to catch copyright infringers. Without seeing the details, that could be open to abuse in my book.

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by Hogan

True, but it looks like what is being proposed here, is giving the various governments, the ability to watch ISP traffic under the guise of trying to catch copyright infringers. Without seeing the details, that could be open to abuse in my book.

It certainly is being abused in the "west"

There are numerous lawsuits underway as a result of the U.S.A. governments spying on it's own people.

[Hogan]

Originally Posted by kennyc

It certainly is being abused in the "west"

There are numerous lawsuits underway as a result of the U.S.A. governments spying on it's own people.

LOL. Is that in West Virgina? I knew DC was over-spilling into there, but I didnt think it was that bad

Seriously though, it's well established that power like that corrrupts, and once given out, its hard to recind.

[ardeegee]

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

As much as those of us hanging around here regularly discuss and obsess about copyright law, the average person doesn't give copyright a second thought. I'm not surprised no one's making a big deal about this on the major news services and networks.

That will change when, instead of the RIAA thugs trying to destroy 9-year-olds and grandmothers with multi-million dollar lawsuits, they try to get them in prison. You can't suddenly criminalize something done by hundreds of millions of people of every age, race, creed, and economic class and expect it to work. The mindless jerks who push these laws will join Sirius Cybernetics Corporation against the wall when the revolution comes.

This is the world that the RIAA, MPAA, and the fools that they have in their pockets want:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32wmepTVM3I

In the long term, these laws and treaties will be destroyed, and the unions that push them will be destroyed. They may be too stupid to see that, or they may be hoping to squeeze out a few more billions before their end, but their end is coming. THIS is the attitude of future generations:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBkuiChImb8

Also, FWIW, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Hemisphere

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by ardeegee

This is the world that the RIAA, MPAA, and the fools that they have in their pockets want:

They want Weird Al to make fun of them?

[Barcey]

The idea that an international trade agreement needs to be protected by national security is just absurd. Most people don't care about copyright but they do care passionately about their rights and freedoms. The measures being discussed need a sober second thought to review. What has been leaked is scary.

Here's a link to Michael Geist's summary.
http://www.michaelgeist.ca/content/view/4530/408/

[tompe]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Given the explosion of illegal distribution of music, films, books, etc, that the Internet has promoted, it seems to me to be a very good thing that new copyright treaties should give governments the powers to tackle the issue internationaly.

Why is that reasonable? One way to tackle the issue and not giving governments more power is to change the copyright laws to force a change in business models.

[Jonas777]

Originally Posted by ardeegee

This is the world that the RIAA, MPAA, and the fools that they have in their pockets want:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32wmepTVM3I

Really appropriate result for that video: "This video is not available in your country due to copyright restrictions. "