09-18-2009, 10:54 AM | #16 | |
Wizard
Posts: 4,334
Karma: 4000000
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Paris
Device: Cybooks; Sony PRS-T1
|
Quote:
From my room, my neighbor wi-fi will hardly be seen. Even when upstairs, my own network is slow. If you're in apartment that's an other mater. |
|
09-18-2009, 11:21 AM | #17 |
Wizard
Posts: 4,293
Karma: 529619
Join Date: May 2007
Device: iRex iLiad, DR800SG
|
|
Advert | |
|
09-18-2009, 01:43 PM | #18 | |||
Professional Contrarian
Posts: 2,045
Karma: 3289631
Join Date: Mar 2009
Device: Kindle 4 No Touchie
|
Quote:
To wit: Sweden's Internet traffic dropped by 30% when an anti-piracy law was recently enacted. Quote:
Quote:
And again, that language in HADOPI 1 resulted in a rejection of the law by the Constitutional Council, and is likely to do so again. Or to put this another way: The apparent violation of the presumption of innocence is not a necessary or even vital component to this law. You can still have an expedited or simplified process, which allows for valid legal review, without requiring the presumption of guilt, which results in suspending an offender's Internet access for a year. |
|||
09-18-2009, 01:50 PM | #19 | |
Wizard
Posts: 1,790
Karma: 507333
Join Date: May 2009
Device: none
|
Quote:
I'd be surprised if it was more than 3%. - Ahi |
|
09-18-2009, 02:54 PM | #20 |
Wizard
Posts: 3,454
Karma: 10484861
Join Date: May 2006
Device: PocketBook 360, before it was Sony Reader, cassiopeia A-20
|
If you disconnect the household, you are also punishing another 2-5 people.
Imagine that a 17 year old son downloads something he shouldn't have. The household gets disconnected. All the rest of the family is denied access to their email, education, ability to shop online, ability to do internet banking. If I was member of such household I would immediately go to the constitutional court - collective punishment is considered barbaric in the vast majority of civilized world. |
Advert | |
|
09-18-2009, 03:18 PM | #21 |
frumious Bandersnatch
Posts: 7,533
Karma: 19000001
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Spaniard in Sweden
Device: Cybook Orizon, Kobo Aura
|
A 17 year old would at least be a minor, and his parents are up to some point responsible of his actions... I'd choose an older son for the example
|
09-18-2009, 03:24 PM | #22 | |
Banned
Posts: 2,094
Karma: 2682
Join Date: Aug 2009
Device: N/A
|
Quote:
ahi - They've fallen 15% and the Swedish music business in particular currently having a major panic. (Sales have been in freefall in Sweden for a long time, and the bill was sold on the basis it'd change everything...) |
|
09-18-2009, 05:17 PM | #23 |
Wizard
Posts: 2,552
Karma: 3799999
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Foristell, Missouri, USA
Device: Nokia N800, PRS-505, Nook STR Glowlight, Kindle 3, Kobo Libra 2
|
From my house, there is 4-5 visible networks. Granted, 3 are mine, but still got those two other neighbors!
|
09-22-2009, 03:15 PM | #24 | |
Wizard
Posts: 4,293
Karma: 529619
Join Date: May 2007
Device: iRex iLiad, DR800SG
|
Quote:
If they actually did take someone to court with sufficient evidence, and prove that they were guilty (as opposed to just assuming it), then the penalty copyright law already provides would be much higher than just having your ISP cut off your access. The reason for HADOPI is so that the RIAA doesn't have to go through all of that (because they know that in the majority of cases they can't). |
|
09-22-2009, 04:54 PM | #25 | |
Professional Contrarian
Posts: 2,045
Karma: 3289631
Join Date: Mar 2009
Device: Kindle 4 No Touchie
|
Then allow me to rephrase.
I'd be fine with an expedited process (akin to having a specialized court for drug-related issues) with escalating warnings, culminating in a 1 year ban. As long as there is legal review and no presumption of guilt, it's fine, and would be a constitutionally valid version of the law (from what I can tell). By the way, if someone in your household is using your connection and you keep getting warnings, again I don't have a lot of sympathy for you. You were warned, the consequences will hopefully be made clear to you, and especially if it's your child, no one else is going to step in and fix the situation for you. Quote:
Sweden sees 100% increase in legal downloads after law was enacted And this article claims physical and digital sales are both up for the first half of 2009, in part due to the new law I'm not finding evidence of a 15% drop in sales, then again Google News is b0rked today. I definitely concur that piracy is not a one-to-one sales loss, but that doesn't alter the fact that infringement is infringement. |
|
09-22-2009, 06:30 PM | #26 |
Wizard
Posts: 2,552
Karma: 3799999
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Foristell, Missouri, USA
Device: Nokia N800, PRS-505, Nook STR Glowlight, Kindle 3, Kobo Libra 2
|
The 15% drop may be a drop in just CD sales. Which in the US, the increase of digital sales also saw a drop of CD sales. If you only want a song or two, why buy the entire album?
|
09-22-2009, 07:42 PM | #27 | |
"Assume a can opener..."
Posts: 755
Karma: 1942109
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Local Cluster
Device: iLiad v2, DR1000
|
Quote:
As such, losing internet access over 'conviction' in a civil infringement suit (or whatever you would want to call it) is not at all proportional to the infraction. 2*0=still 0 Post hoc ergo propter hoc, and correlation != causation. I doubt their methodology is quite sound enough to be able to assert this with any degree of confidence. The lay term, which is luckily apt, is "wishful thinking", and it's meaningless if nothing worse. Last edited by zerospinboson; 09-22-2009 at 07:44 PM. |
|
09-22-2009, 09:08 PM | #28 | ||
Professional Contrarian
Posts: 2,045
Karma: 3289631
Join Date: Mar 2009
Device: Kindle 4 No Touchie
|
Read the 2nd article. Physical media sales up 30%, digital 57%. I.e. unless or until proven otherwise, the "15% drop" statistic is apparently wrong.
Quote:
And I think you underestimate the value of paper mail and the telephone. Quote:
|
||
09-23-2009, 03:26 AM | #29 | |
"Assume a can opener..."
Posts: 755
Karma: 1942109
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Local Cluster
Device: iLiad v2, DR1000
|
Quote:
In any case, it would seem that you forgot to answer my main claim, that is, that this kind of punishment is almost unheard-of in a civil suit. It's utterly unclear what you're being punished for, as the industry could just as easily report you for 'making available' a single file as 20,000, with no need whatever to prove that there are actual damages. So you're punished "on principle" because a business wants to punish you for not consuming enough of their goods. Sounds worse than communism to me. Again, the punishment is totally unbefitting the infraction. |
|
09-23-2009, 10:26 AM | #30 | |
Wizard
Posts: 4,293
Karma: 529619
Join Date: May 2007
Device: iRex iLiad, DR800SG
|
Quote:
|
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
French ‘Loi Hadopi’ anti-filesharing law passed | Moejoe | Lounge | 224 | 09-03-2010 11:16 AM |
E-Books ActuaLitté / InLibroVeritas "La Bataille Hadopi se mène sur tous les fronts du livre" | zelda_pinwheel | Forum Français | 3 | 11-02-2009 07:33 AM |
Biography Williamson, A. M. and C.N: The Princess Passes. V1. 18 Sep 2009 | crutledge | BBeB/LRF Books | 0 | 09-18-2009 07:58 PM |
Action Williamson, A. M. and C.N: The Princess Passes. V1. 18 Sep 2009 | crutledge | ePub Books | 0 | 09-18-2009 07:39 PM |
When Zelda Passes Harry | RWood | Lounge | 70 | 09-10-2009 12:03 AM |