Steampunk?

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by montsnmags

Dennis, would you also acknowledge the possibility, though, that sometimes it's worthwhile classifying stuff after the fact, when, let's say, the "steampunk" existed in such form prior to the work of whichever author is labeled as having pioneered it (and, I guess also, it should be noted that the "pioneer" didn't actively try to write steampunk when the term didn't exist - s/he just became the "first" steampunk novelist)?

I don't think we can help classifying stuff after the fact, as we realize new definitions can be applied to existing works. I just try to keep timeframes and intents in mind.

For instance, while Jules Verne is widely considered an early SF author today, the genre didn't exist as such when he was writing. He thought he was writing adventure stories for boys. (And he was careful to keep the science consistent with what was known at the time, and limited himself to one scientific device per story. The closest he got to modern SF was the nebulous and undescribed electrical power source for the submarine Nautilus on _20,000 Leagues Under the Sea_) Calling his work SF happened well after he was gone, and I've sometimes wondered what his reaction to the classification would be.

Along similar lines, the late John Brunner's works like _The Shockwave Rider_ were called proto-cyberpunk by the promoters of that movement. John just laughed and pointed further back at some Fred Pohl/Cyril Kornbluth collaborations.

Going back farther, we have the New Wave that coalesced around the Michael Moorcock edited New Worlds magazine in the 60's, and new wavers claimed things like Roger Zelazny's _Creatures of Light and Darkness_ as an example. Roger was amused. He did it as an experiment, tossing in every radical writing technique he could think of, saw it as a literary joke, and was startled when it was taken seriously.

Any new movement seems to try to retro-actively claim some existing works as its own to help give it legitimacy. The claims often become whimsical.

Incidentally, I've been enjoying your posts, with your detailed opinions on and references to books and authors you like/dislike or that just are related to whatever the current topic of conversation is. You've been giving me googling pleasure and some notations of future additions to the TBR-file/pile. Good show, fellow! (though I also curse you - I really don't need any more TBR additions )

You're welcome, I suppose.

I understand about the TBR pile. The nice thing about ebooks is that the unread stack won't hurt you if it falls over on you. My TBR stack of hardcovers would be another matter.

Cheers,
Marc

______
Dennis

[montsnmags]

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

I don't think we can help classifying stuff after the fact, as we realize new definitions can be applied to existing works. I just try to keep timeframes and intents in mind. ...

Hmm, yes, I see what you mean now.

Along similar lines, the late John Brunner's works like _The Shockwave Rider_ were called proto-cyberpunk by the promoters of that movement. John just laughed and pointed further back at some Fred Pohl/Cyril Kornbluth collaborations.

I have no idea why I have never read any of John Brunner's work. For as long as I can remember I've picked his books up off the bookstore shelves, looked at the back, and though to myself "Oh, yeah, definitely have to read this", and then just never got around to it.

You're welcome, I suppose.

I understand about the TBR pile. The nice thing about ebooks is that the unread stack won't hurt you if it falls over on you. My TBR stack of hardcovers would be another matter.

I've hit the Great Books/Harvard Classics binge lately, and I've got to remind myself that if it becomes a task then it loses any point for me. So, I'm starting to interject that reading with my first love, SF, and particularly some of the stuff I missed in my youth while reading the "new release" stuff.

Cheers,
Marc

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by montsnmags

I have no idea why I have never read any of John Brunner's work. For as long as I can remember I've picked his books up off the bookstore shelves, looked at the back, and though to myself "Oh, yeah, definitely have to read this", and then just never got around to it.

I knew John slightly, and liked the man as well as respecting the work. Things of his I'd recommend offhand include _Stand On Zanzibar_, The Jagged Orbit_, _The Sheep Look Up_, _The Shockwave Rider_, and _The Squares of the City_.

TJO, SOZ, TSLU, and TSR were all produced during the same period. Brunner borrowed the form John Dos Passos used in the USA Trilogy as the appropriate vehice for telling those stories, and reading them led me to Dos Passos. The Sqaures of the City is an earlier work and an exercise in formalism, with a structure based in a master's chess game.

I've hit the Great Books/Harvard Classics binge lately, and I've got to remind myself that if it becomes a task then it loses any point for me.

One of the lovely things about electronic books is the number of classics available in free electronic editions from PG and the like. I have a fair number on my PDA for reading when a moment is available. They are far more approachable when they are things I am reading for fun, rather than because someone is trying to cram them down my throat in the name of education.

So, I'm starting to interject that reading with my first love, SF, and particularly some of the stuff I missed in my youth while reading the "new release" stuff.

I've read most of the classic stuff, but I'm gradually going back and filling in gaps of stuff I missed back when and have entered the public domain. It is a bit sobering when I start to see works by people I knew reach that status.

Cheers,
Marc

______
Dennis

[Elsi]

Originally Posted by montsnmags

I've hit the Great Books/Harvard Classics binge lately, and I've got to remind myself that if it becomes a task then it loses any point for me. So, I'm starting to interject that reading with my first love, SF, and particularly some of the stuff I missed in my youth while reading the "new release" stuff.

Marc, I'm in the same mode. I'm availing myself of Lucy Maud Montgomery's Anne and Emily books, and I've set myself the goal of reading the best of Anthony Trollope. Like you, I'm interspersing SF (and cozy mysteries) among these "classic" reads. Several years ago, I stumbled across a novel by Joanna Trollope -- The Choir -- and discovered that she is distantly related to Victorian novelist Anthony Trollope. Hence my interest in reading a few of his novels.

[montsnmags]

Originally Posted by Elsi

Marc, I'm in the same mode. I'm availing myself of Lucy Maud Montgomery's Anne and Emily books, and I've set myself the goal of reading the best of Anthony Trollope. Like you, I'm interspersing SF (and cozy mysteries) among these "classic" reads. Several years ago, I stumbled across a novel by Joanna Trollope -- The Choir -- and discovered that she is distantly related to Victorian novelist Anthony Trollope. Hence my interest in reading a few of his novels.

I'm definitely going to go a Brunner book next (probably The Sheep Look Up or Stand on Zanzibar as they're the ones I remember having a look at from my early reading days). It's nice to know others are doing the same, so I feel less guilt when I go from Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man to something lighter (not light; just lighter in relative terms).

By the way, I'd noted to myself as well, seeing it in the newsfeed, that you have recently uploaded some books to MobileRead. I was struck with fond memory, since my Mum would occasionally refer to any two people dressed the same or behaving the same (that is, thick as thieves) as The Bobbsey Twins and, although I knew what she meant (she'd occasionally refer to my sister and me as such...which is somewhat disconcerting in hindsight ), I never knew where she'd got the phrase from. Now I do.

Cheers,
Marc

[tompe]

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

Sure, but if I don't think they were written to be steampunk, I don't call them that. The most I'll say is that they scratch the same sort of itch.
______
Dennis

What books do you think are written to be steampunk? The only one I can think of is The Difference Engine.

And the term was invented to describe books that already existed.

[Sparrow]

Stephen Baxter "Anti-Ice"

[WillAdams]

Kaja and Phil Foglio's _Girl Genius_ ``Gaslamp Fantasy'' graphic novels / on-line comics are along this vein.

http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/

William

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by montsnmags

I'm definitely going to go a Brunner book next (probably The Sheep Look Up or Stand on Zanzibar as they're the ones I remember having a look at from my early reading days). It's nice to know others are doing the same, so I feel less guilt when I go from Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man to something lighter (not light; just lighter in relative terms).

_Stand on Zanzibar_, _The Sheep Look Up, and _The Jagged Orbit_ are extended looks using a similar technique on over population, pollution, and racial tension, respectively. I think TJO is my favorite, if only for the last line, but all are worth a go.

SOZ won the Hugo Award it's year. TSLO got nominated for a Nebula, but dropped out of print fairly rapidly. I think it was a little too downbeat and dystopian for the audience.

Marc

______
Dennis

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Sparrow

Stephen Baxter "Anti-Ice"

Or even more so, the book "The Time Ships" by the same author.

[Sparrow]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Or even more so, the book "The Time Ships" by the same author.

Fantastic book - but is it 'steampunk'?

[radius]

I would say that The Baroque Cycle by Neal Stephenson is very close to steampunk (closer than The Diamond Age in fact).

I don't think there are any inventions that appear before their time, but there are enough anachronisms to make it feel steampunky. My favourite is when some of the characters embark on a pirate expedition and find themselves in much the same situation as founders in a technology startup today (eg pitching the idea to angel investors, trying to get to market first, losing founders to other ventures etc).

[jaxx6166]

Bummer that hardly any of the recommendations you guys came up with are available for ebook :-(

It's just so-o much more convenient to have my Sony in the car when I'm reading than a big dead tree =(

Thanks for the help though guys. I have to go Brick-n-Mortar hopping now! =)

[begem0t]

The Iron Dragon's Daughter by Michael Swanwick.

Also the last year's sequel - The Dragons of Babel.

[Latinandgreek]

Have a look at "The Light Ages" by Ian R. MacLeod. I really enjoyed it and am planning on reading its follow up "The House of Storms" soon.