Penguin: Publishers need the e-book to survive

[GregS]

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

The virtual worlds may make it easier to transcend geographical boundaries, but you still have the same problem of how to get more people overall to see your product, AND check it out and buy it.

Except of course, if where they meet is also where the products are. Think in terms of different cities, or islands, think of the Continent of Literature, Book Island, Reader's city.

Virtual place, becomes virtual market place, no more searching the web but wandering through department stores, small shops and plaza's full of stalls, suburbs of non-fiction etc.,.

Still a ways off, but now much nearer than it ever was before.

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by GregS

Except of course, if where they meet is also where the products are. Think in terms of different cities, or islands, think of the Continent of Literature, Book Island, Reader's city.

Virtual place, becomes virtual market place, no more searching the web but wandering through department stores, small shops and plaza's full of stalls, suburbs of non-fiction etc.,.

And is advertising free there? No premium prices to get your ads in the spots that everyone will see, the way it is in the real world?

[GregS]

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

And is advertising free there? No premium prices to get your ads in the spots that everyone will see, the way it is in the real world?

Well that would depend very much on what we are talking about.

What I am saying is that there is already evolving a virtual world approach to net communication, which by its nature allows (when the software evolves further) market places to form.

I would assume that means premium virtual real estate goes with big bucks. But how do you shop for books?

Do you always go to the big stores, or the stores with the best selection?

At the moment you throw out adverts into the net wind and hope to get customers. A virtual geography gives you a place to which customers come.

Small vendors end up with stalls and in lanes, big well heeled operations would have posters all over the place, and huge malls (I suppose). Books unlike many commodities have niche-tastes not well served by the everybook in the world approach, besides which in a virtual world you also have staff, with tastes and knowledge of their own.

I am not saying this solves everything, but watch out because it is just around the corner, and new opportunities will be created. The internet is still a baby with a whole lot more growing up to do.

Besides which it is going to take some years for things to flesh out.

[JSWolf]

Steve, we are trying to get people to stop incorrectly using the term ereader eReader means something and the incorrect usage could cause others to misread what is trying to be said.

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Yeah, I know... I was just saying. I agree, we should be clear and accurate with our terms and product names.

[nekokami]

I've seen the "virtual geography" idea as it has played out in Second Life, and it doesn't work for me. I find it much more efficient to be able to scan a list on a screen than to have to walk around in virtual space to find something. I don't like wandering through malls, looking for content. I like it even less in Second Life than I do in real life.

The exception, of course, is things that are best represented in 3D. If I were considering buying a house or hiring a builder in a remote location, I'd love to be able to tour a virtual house. Or if I were buying furniture, I could have a model of my own house, and try the virtual versions of different furniture in it until I find something I like. Maybe someday we'll have virtual representations good enough that I'd consider buying one-of-a-kind pottery that way, but we're not there yet. And for buying words, why would I need a 3D representation? I'm not going to read them that way.

On the other hand, I like being part of a community around books, but at this point, I think the site we're on right now (as I'm typing this, and later as you're reading this, whoever you are) is serving that purpose better than a virtual world which imposes "realistic" constraints of time and place.

As I type this, I'm sitting in a real-world library-- a real community of books. I'm here because I have a few hours free and this is a comfortable place to be. The combination of real local space and "flat" or text-based virtual space works well for me.

[GregS]

nekokami, if you ask me, wandering around as a bunch of avatars is a waste of time. The who "second life" thing should be renamed "waste your life".

However, like everything else there are aspects that outweigh others. In this case, it is how any form of Virtual Geography (need not be 3D, but obviously this will bring it about) allows similar things to come together within the same "space" because it is mutually beneficent.

[nekokami]

Oh, don't get me wrong. I like Second Life. I just don't like it for shopping. I like it for building toys, and sharing them with others.

[BooksForABuck]

Interesting (and scary) that Penguin seems to identify eBooks with free books. While eBooks should offer cost savings (if nothing else, to help encourage readers to try them), free is not an author-friendly model. And relying on e to sell p is based on a short-term model which has already expired.

In terms of asking people what they'd read on, if you'd asked them what they'd listen to downloaded music on five years ago, they probably would have said their PC (or maybe on CDs they burned on their PCs). Until people try something, they can't see themselves using it. I agree with those who say that a small portable device makes for a better eReading experience.

Rob Preece
Publisher, www.BooksForABuck.com
(Affordable electronic fiction)

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by BooksForABuck

Interesting (and scary) that Penguin seems to identify eBooks with free books.

They just can't grasp a market beyond print.

[JamesNunes]

Hello all, new to the forum,

I've been following the digital paper development and I believe we are on the brink of a revolution in books and the written word in general, similar to the one we've seen in the music business.

Digital music was never truly a mass phenomenon before the advent of the mp3 which allowed the download of music and of the digital music players. In the book scene there are already many suitable formats that allow for mass storage in digital format, but we still don't have a suitable hardware. Reading on a computer screen is tiring, and reading on a backlit screen is hardly relaxing, the e-paper makes these problems disappear.

What it seems to me is writers will be able to benefit from the greater accessibility of their writings maybe selling directly to the reader on a website and if they're really good have the publishers do the marketing, PR and translation work. In this way the role of the publishers will shift to that of a service provider for the writer. In any scenario we'll see a downward trend in books prices as the operating costs for the whole operation diminishes.

Sorry for any freaky grammar, I'm not a native speaker

[Barcey]

Originally Posted by JamesNunes

What it seems to me is writers will be able to benefit from the greater accessibility of their writings maybe selling directly to the reader on a website and if they're really good have the publishers do the marketing, PR and translation work. In this way the role of the publishers will shift to that of a service provider for the writer.

I agree with you. The question is whether the publishers will embrace their new role or try to protect the existing distribution model. If they don't I see there will be a "YouBook" type of service where you can see which books are getting the most discussion and hits and then go to the authors website and buy the book.

The publishers will then see their profits drop, blame piracy and lobby for tougher DRM laws.

[GregS]

JamesNune "I've been following the digital paper development and I believe we are on the brink of a revolution in books and the written word in general, similar to the one we've seen in the music business."

Too right!!, these are the very early days. It is not the beginning of the end of the printed word, but it is going to be a gigantic shift on what is committed to paper and what is not, and just how much wood is given over to printing. Ironically, ebooks will probably support more on-demand printing and auto-binding, what will probably vanish is the huge piles of remainders which end up being pulped.

I would also strongly agree that e-ink is the technology, or reflective "monitors" are critically important - reading has never been good on CRT and LCD (the later much better than the former). I am new to this forum as well - I was very much taken by surprised on how many e-ink devices are coming onto the market (none in Australia yet). This is a very good thing.

Some signs of what may evolve are already apparent. The publisher/retailer, rather than publisher - distributor - retailer seems a useful model, and one uniquely suited to digital communications. Self-publishing is part and parcel with this, and roles for freelance editors and copy-fixers, will make some headway.

However, it comes down to money and while I love things being free, the fact is that authors, especially, need to earn money on their writing so they keep writing.

Small, even nominal payments, are not yet practical, that is a technical restraint. I would like the people who scan old books, format them to be paid, precisely so they continue doing so, and doing more.

Free is not good, nor is paying near paper prices for digital works. I would hope in the fullness of time, that prices come down smallish amounts, and most of what is given for free is charged at least a few cents. I would like to think that someone in the Third World could buy literature at very little cost for them.

Micro-cash is really needed in this area. Even if Gutenberg charged as little as .01 cent for raw text, they could always give the money to a charity. That would be a good thing IMHO. I would like to see free formatted books charge a a single cent, and in the end a new best seller for a for a few dollars, and most commercial ebooks for a dollar or two (or less).

The scale of consumption would have to change dramatically to support this kind of pricing, but paying for things has to become a lot simpler and the banks/financial houses should not get away with a transaction tax (one of the main reasons it is not viable to charge too little for most things). Micro-Cash (anonymous transferable scripts) rather than Micro-Payment (transactional, levy based imposts) is the key, unfortunately it is out of our hands for the most part.

Greg Schofield
Perth Australia

[DaleDe]

Originally Posted by GregS

JamesNune "
I would also strongly agree that e-ink is the technology, or reflective "monitors" are critically important - reading has never been good on CRT and LCD (the later much better than the former). I am new to this forum as well - I was very much taken by surprised on how many e-ink devices are coming onto the market (none in Australia yet). This is a very good thing.


Greg Schofield
Perth Australia

Actually Hiebook seems only to be available in Australia. It is a nice reader by the way.

http://www.einfosolutions.com/hiebook.htm

Dale

[JamesNunes]

Originally Posted by GregS

However, it comes down to money and while I love things being free, the fact is that authors, especially, need to earn money on their writing so they keep writing.

Agreed, I believe the writer will be able to have a bigger share of a lower priced book, while the editors and the retailers will have to invest in premium versions of books like illustrated hard-cover editions for example, which are beautiful on a bookshelf and can't be replaced for the digital version.
I don't think the p-book is going to disappear, not while there are people around that know that the physical book as an object has meaning and emotional depth. Although I make a point of having a physical version of "Remembrance of Things Past" or of "The book of disquiet" I wouldn't mind saving shelf space on the "Star Trek: Deep Space Nine" series which I would be more than happy to read and store on my e-book reader.
I trust that everyone in the business will be able to make a profit, albeit being forced to innovate beyond their present model to do so.

Originally Posted by GregS

The scale of consumption would have to change dramatically to support this kind of pricing, but paying for things has to become a lot simpler and the banks/financial houses should not get away with a transaction tax (one of the main reasons it is not viable to charge too little for most things). Micro-Cash (anonymous transferable scripts) rather than Micro-Payment (transactional, levy based imposts) is the key, unfortunately it is out of our hands for the most part.

I don't really know much about micro-cash... where can I find more info on it?