Are B&W E-ink Screens As Good As They Can Be Now?

[John F]

Originally Posted by tomsem

Yes.

There was only one Kindle with an IR touchscreen, Kindle Touch (I have one right here).

Its successor, the PW1, was a step backward for clarity, despite its higher resolution display, due to additional layers for front light guide and capacitive touch. And less than half the storage, no audio/TTS, and most controversially at the time no physical Home button! It was a pretty miserable device. Was that the last one Bezos participated in a launch event for? Cannot remember.

At one point I had 2 Voyages, and gave one to my sister (she's still using it). A few weeks later my remaining one bricked itself after an update. I have moved on, and don't miss it. I would find it difficult to go back to a 6" screen even if it was as good as Voyage's.

I don't find it difficult going from 6 to 7 to 8 and back to 6". I do prefer a 6".

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by John F

I don't find it difficult going from 6 to 7 to 8 and back to 6". I do prefer a 6".

I've found it impossible to go back to a 6'' screen. Just don't want to read on it. OTOH I have no problems with switching between 7'' and 8''.

[Quoth]

Originally Posted by Sirtel

I've found it impossible to go back to a 6'' screen. Just don't want to read on it. OTOH I have no problems with switching between 7'' and 8''.

I prefer an 8″, but the 7″ is usable. A smaller size is handy when travelling without a bag or big pocket. My hooded jacket can take the 8″ Sage.

Considering what I've seen of the last 12 years, and especially the last 10 on 300 dpi, I think any B&W eink screen improvement will be marginal, unless a new technology is discovered.

Similarly Kaleido is at the limit of the eink technology. The ACeP is different technology but would need a massive change to be fast enough for an ereader. So a much better mono or colour eink ereader needs technology not yet invented, meanwhile there are larger LCDs with decent enough battery life (read 12 hours) and no-glare/no-shine matt screens.

E ink Corp (and to an extent Amazon and Qualcomm) have pretty much ensured there are unlikely to be any bistable eink screen developments outside of E Ink Corp, so don't hold your breath for anything much better than we have. The mono trans-reflective LCD with amber LED back light is an old idea and inferior to real eink for mono novels and inferior to matt screen colour LCD for everything else. The QLED is actually LCD that only needs about 1/6th of the backlight power for the same brightness. It's got better colour too. Samsung and TCL already sell TVs using them, as do others using Samsung and TCL panels.

The current mono eink from E Ink Corp at 300 dpi seems about as good as you'll get to read novels. The 9.7″ and larger are really too big for simply reading novels. Maybe there is need for an 8.5″ or 9″ 300 dpi B&W eink. Having (or had) a 9.7″ and two 10.3″ eink, I find they are far too big for novels and can't at all compete with the TCL Nxtpaper 11 (a Nxtpaper 2.0 screen and there is a Nxtpaper 3.0 screen). I may get a Nxtpaper 14 pro for PDFs and illustrated picture books/comics/graphic novels, but I'll stick with the 8″ Sage as biggest for novels. I might consider an 8.5″ if not stupidly full of magnets like the Sage is.

[slm]

Originally Posted by tomsem

Its successor, the PW1, was a step backward for clarity, despite its higher resolution display.

And yet--as proof of how little all the more recent improvement mean--I still use my PW1 quite often.

Of course, I also use my Voyage--its lighter and the text is clearer.

But, for all practical purposes, the PW1 is more than adequate for reading.

[John F]

Originally Posted by Quoth

...
The current mono eink from E Ink Corp at 300 dpi seems about as good as you'll get to read novels. The 9.7″ and larger are really too big for simply reading novels. ...

I wish Kobo would make a 300dpi 10" device. It would be a good size for reading novels.

[rcentros]

Originally Posted by Quoth

Pearl and Carta were the two big upgrades from visiplex.a

Agreed on that. When I said "older" eReaders, I meant ones that used the Pearl or Carta screens. One of the brightest screens I have is a Tolino Page (original), which uses a Carta, 167dpi screen. It uses infrared for touch and there's no light layer.

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by slm

And yet--as proof of how little all the more recent improvement mean--I still use my PW1 quite often.

Of course, I also use my Voyage--its lighter and the text is clearer.

But, for all practical purposes, the PW1 is more than adequate for reading.

The improvements mean little to you, perhaps, but not to others. I've found myself completely unwilling to read on any older device since I got my two Kobos with Carta 1200 screens, so much so that I sold all my older ereaders. I'm also unwilling to read on a 6" screen and without warm light in a dim environment - these two were the reasons I sold my Voyage.

So no, I wouldn't say the improvements mean little to me.

As to a 10“ screen with 300 ppi, personally I'm not interested. Too big and too heavy. 7-8" screen is what I like.

[rcentros]

Originally Posted by Sirtel

So no, I wouldn't say the improvements mean little to me.

They don't mean little to me. I still think the Kindle Voyage has the whitest white and darkest black screen that I've seen (and it came out in 2014, I think). But, when you use "warm" light on the newer screens, it's kind of like making the background more like a grey screen and lessening the contrast to look a something like an older tech screen. And less "sharp" might not be a bad thing (at least not for my eyes).

The best "warm light" screen I have is still the Nook Glowlight 3.

As for size, I might be able to adapt to a 7" screen (I have an Aura HD that I don't mind), but the 8" screens are definitely too big for me. (A matter of taste.)

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by John F

Maybe, maybe not. Wasn't the Voyage a capacitance screen, and wasn't it one of the best screens at the time?

And the PW4 has a capacitance touch and it's terrible. My H2O is a very good screen other then it's not 300DPI.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by John F

I wish Kobo would make a 300dpi 10" device. It would be a good size for reading novels.

But only if they up the battery enough to make it last long enough between charges.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by rcentros

They don't mean little to me. I still think the Kindle Voyage has the whitest white and darkest black screen that I've seen (and it came out in 2014, I think). But, when you use "warm" light on the newer screens, it's kind of like making the background more like a grey screen and lessening the contrast to look a something like an older tech screen. And less "sharp" might not be a bad thing (at least not for my eyes).

The best "warm light" screen I have is still the Nook Glowlight 3.

As for size, I might be able to adapt to a 7" screen (I have an Aura HD that I don't mind), but the 8" screens are definitely too big for me. (A matter of taste.)

If the warm light wasn't a thing, I'd not miss it as I don't use it.

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by rcentros

They don't mean little to me. I still think the Kindle Voyage has the whitest white and darkest black screen that I've seen (and it came out in 2014, I think). But, when you use "warm" light on the newer screens, it's kind of like making the background more like a grey screen and lessening the contrast to look a something like an older tech screen. And less "sharp" might not be a bad thing (at least not for my eyes).

The best "warm light" screen I have is still the Nook Glowlight 3.

As for size, I might be able to adapt to a 7" screen (I have an Aura HD that I don't mind), but the 8" screens are definitely too big for me. (A matter of taste.)

I agree with you re the Voyage screen; definitely the best contrast I've ever seen. Unfortunately I couldn't accept a 6" screen and the lack of warm light after using larger screens with warm light.

I only use the warmth in artificial light, not in daylight. In those conditions it doesn't make the screen less sharp/contrasty (to me) and IMO it looks nothing like the old grey non-lit screens. But I guess the perception how something looks is very subjective.

I read a lot at night, in a dimly lit room; so I use the warm light a lot also. I can't use the dark mode, as I can't stand light text on a dark background - my eyes tire immediately. I use the warm light on all my tablets/computers at night too for this reason, the dark mode is unusable for me.

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

And the PW4 has a capacitance touch and it's terrible. My H2O is a very good screen other then it's not 300DPI.

Aaand the Libra 2 is capacitive with excellent contrast...

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Sirtel

Aaand the Libra 2 is capacitive with excellent contrast...

But it could be better with IR.

[John F]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

But only if they up the battery enough to make it last long enough between charges.

But they need to keep it light.