Utah Bans 13 books from state schools

[PeterT]

I'm not sure who Sarah J. Mass is; I do find though an author with similarly titled books Sarah J. Maas.

[rcentros]

Originally Posted by Karellen

And most of these parents will have the internet at home, and children will have their essential smart phones, with pornography a few clicks away.

Strange how one medium can be banned while another more easily accessible medium proliferates and serves up more graphic content.

And many of those parents have parental controls on the Internet. Or they limit their child's access to it. But even if they didn't why should they accept this pornographic crap in their children's school libraries?

[rcentros]

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

You do realize that teens can get public library cards without parental consent and are then able to check out the banned books.

Not in Idaho now. But even if what you say is true, why should this crap be promoted and provided in school libraries? It's unlawful for children to buy liquor and drugs, but they manage to get around the laws. Does that mean the schools should provide it for them to save them the trouble of finding it elsewhere?

[rcentros]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

I'm not going to quibble over whether or not Minor == Child. There's no real answer there. One is a legal construct and the other is a social one. I just don't personally know anyone who would call a 17 year-old a "child." But if you want to, have at it. You're allowed to be wrong.

Just out of curiosity: when do they become adolescents, or young adults, if they remain "children" until after secondary school?

For the record... I don't have a problem in the world with parents trying to control what kind of books their kids are exposed to in school. I just don't approve of them attempting to control what books EVERYONE'S kids are exposed to in school using legal nuclear options. It's presumptuous, and it's overreach.

I'm not going to quibble about the law either. It's the law, quibble or not, under 18 and you're a minor. If you're a minor your parents are responsible for you. Period. (Parent are often sued for what their children (under 18) do.)

Schools have no business being in the porn business.

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by rcentros

Not in Idaho now. But even if what you say is true, why should this crap be promoted and provided in school libraries? It's unlawful for children to buy liquor and drugs, but they manage to get around the laws. Does that mean the schools should provide it for them to save them the trouble of finding it elsewhere?

Does not in Idaho mean that these books are banned in ALL public libraries in Idaho?

There are 4 public libraries outside of Utah and Idaho that will allow teens to get free library cards online without parental consent. The teens are then free to check out any of these books.

I see nothing wrong with having these books in high school libraries. School libraries should carry age appropriate material.

I have more to say, but it's too political.

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by rcentros

And many of those parents have parental controls on the Internet. Or they limit their child's access to it. But even if they didn't why should they accept this pornographic crap in their children's school libraries?

"pornographic crap" is in the eye of the beholder.

Parents have the right to dictate what their children can access. They do NOT have the right to dictate what other children can access.

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by rcentros

And many of those parents have parental controls on the Internet. Or they limit their child's access to it.

As someone who worked in IT and in education for decades, one thing I learned is that parental controls didn't work. Too many ways around any controls and the kids will pass the techniques around. As for limiting their child's access? Unless they are homeschooling their children, they are going to be accessing the Internet outside their home.

Originally Posted by rcentros

But even if they didn't why should they accept this pornographic crap in their children's school libraries?

I take it you have read all the books to come to the conclusion that those books are "pornographic crap"?

Perhaps you could enlighten us as to what in Sarah J. Maas' A Court of Thorns and Roses series you found pornographic?

What in Forever you found pornographic?

Some of the ideas in Oryx and Crake might be pushing the limits but some specifics might be worth hearing from you, you know exactly what you found pornographic in that book.

What in Blankets did you find pornographic?

I haven't read the other books but it's so very tempting since they have been banned.

[Aleron Ives]

Originally Posted by rcentros

why should they accept this pornographic crap in their children's school libraries?

On the Kobo store, 'A Court Of Thorns And Roses' is classified as Romance, Science Fiction & Fantasy, Epic Fantasy, Fiction & Literature. It is not in the Erotica section. Amazon classifies it as Fantasy Romance, Epic Fantasy, Romantic Fantasy.

You may think the books are in bad taste, but that doesn't make them pornographic. If Utah's school libraries actually did contain erotica, then parents would have a stronger case to make in favour of removing the books, but the solution in that case would be to discipline the librarians who put such books on the shelves, rather than to impose book bans.

[rcentros]

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

Does not in Idaho mean that these books are banned in ALL public libraries in Idaho?

There are 4 public libraries outside of Utah and Idaho that will allow teens to get free library cards online without parental consent. The teens are then free to check out any of these books.

I see nothing wrong with having these books in high school libraries. School libraries should carry age appropriate material.

I have more to say, but it's too political.

Basically what you're saying is that there are ways to get around the law. There's always ways to get around the law... so what?

I do see something wrong with carrying porn in schools. Schools should not be smut purveyors. Have you actually read any of these books? Should parents embrace the school's decision to use taxes they provide the schools to pay for sexually explicit material in their children's libraries?

I'll ask again. Would you favor Playboy, Hustler and Penthouse in school libraries?

I'm happy that I never sent my kids to public school, especially when I read about the kind of crap the librarians think should be acceptable for kids these days.

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by rcentros

I do see something wrong with carrying porn in schools. Schools should not be smut purveyors. Have you actually read any of these books? Should parents embrace the school's decision to use taxes they provide the schools to pay for sexually explicit material in their children's libraries?

I have read 9 of those books. I would not describe any of them as smut. That you would use smut and sexually explicit to describe them suggests you have not read them.

Originally Posted by rcentros

I'll ask again. Would you favor Playboy, Hustler and Penthouse in school libraries?

Dating yourself with that choice of magazines. So now we have jumped to conflating those books with magazines with nekkid wimmin. Might I ask why you left Playgirl and it's ilk out? Have you actually read any of those books?

Originally Posted by rcentros

I'm happy that I never sent my kids to public school, especially when I read about the kind of crap the librarians think should be acceptable for kids these days.

I ran into quite a few homeschooled children who had transferred into the public school system. Many of those experiences were enough to make me regret my career.

[rcentros]

Originally Posted by DNSB

As someone who worked in IT and in education for decades, one thing I learned is that parental controls didn't work. Too many ways around any controls and the kids will pass the techniques around. As for limiting their child's access? Unless they are homeschooling their children, they are going to be accessing the Internet outside their home.

So your solution is take away all parental consent, and all attempts to control the crap their kid's see? Just open the floodgates in schools? Sorry, but no thanks.

Originally Posted by DNSB

I take it you have read all the books to come to the conclusion that those books are "pornographic crap"?

I read enough of one of them to know it was porn. Seeing that the author, Maas, used the the phrase "between her legs" several times, I did a search in Calibre. It showed up over 20 times in one book. That was enough for me. (This was in her book A Court of Silver Flames.)

Have you read any of these books?

Originally Posted by DNSB

Perhaps you could enlighten us as to what in Sarah J. Maas' A Court of Thorns and Roses series you found pornographic?

No, thanks, I've read enough of her crap. I assume it's pretty much the same in all these books or they wouldn't have been banned. If you want to read more of this explicit crap that's your prerogative. Just don't expect me to embrace it for use school libraries.

And that's the problem. Pushing these sexually explicit books into public school libraries.

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by rcentros

Basically what you're saying is that there are ways to get around the law. There's always ways to get around the law... so what?

Please explain what you meant by "not in Idaho now".

I do see something wrong with carrying porn in schools. Schools should not be smut purveyors. Have you actually read any of these books? Should parents embrace the school's decision to use taxes they provide the schools to pay for sexually explicit material in their children's libraries?

You say it's porn, I say it's not. Now what?

And no, I haven't read any of these books. Have you?

Taxes? That's too political to discuss here.

I'll ask again. Would you favor Playboy, Hustler and Penthouse in school libraries?

School libraries? No ... Public libraries? Yes

I'm happy that I never sent my kids to public school, especially when I read about the kind of crap the librarians think should be acceptable for kids these days.

It's a good thing for you that there weren't laws preventing you from doing that, right?

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by DNSB

I haven't read the other books but it's so very tempting since they have been banned.

Nothing like banning something to draw attention to it.

[DNSB]

[QUOTE=rcentros;4445338]I read enough of one of them to know it was porn. Seeing that the author, Maas, used the the phrase "between her legs" several times, I did a search in Calibre. It showed up over 20 times in one book. That was enough for me. (This was in her book A Court of Silver Flames.)

Have you read any of these books?[QUOTE]

I have read them. Not just skimmed them for "smut".

Hmmm... first incident of "between her legs". Her companion is massaging her legs after her first day spent in the saddle with his hands against her ankles.

The other incidents? Much less smut than Lot futtering his daughters and I won't even get into the Song of Solomon.

Originally Posted by rcentros

No, thanks, I've read enough of her crap. I assume it's pretty much the same in all these books or they wouldn't have been banned. If you want to read more of this explicit crap that's your prerogative. Just don't expect me to embrace it for use school libraries.

And that's the problem. Pushing these sexually explicit books into public school libraries.

You think Sarah J. Maas' books are explicit? ROTFLMAO.

One of my sidelines for several years has been cleaning up books for publication. Compared to the average romance these days, Sarah J. Maas is not even in the running. Yes, they are not the science fiction of the "Golden Years" but neither are they "smut".

I would not want to find them in an elementary or middle school library. OTOH, in a high school library? I doubt that many of the grade 10 to 12 students are going to learn much that they are not already aware of from Sarah J. Maas' books.

[pdurrant]

Originally Posted by PeterT

I'm not sure who Sarah J. Mass is; I do find though an author with similarly titled books Sarah J. Maas.

My bad. Fixing now.