Does hyphenation work or not?

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by klover137006

Haha, god, it's always frustrating when computers simply cannot do what they're supposed to do best: follow instructions.

(Of course, I do realize that they're in fact following someone's instructions to not follow instructions... even more frustrating!)

OK, so with KePub, 3/3 is really 2/2, but if a word contains a comma at the end, does that in fact mean 2/1, if the comma counts as one?

That I do not know as English does not have words that end in a comma.

The numbers I would use are...

ePub: 2/3
KePub: 3/4

[klover137006]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

That I do not know as English does not have words that end in a comma.

The numbers I would use are...

ePub: 2/3
KePub: 3/4

Oh, neither does Swedish, but someone mentioned that punctuation is counted as part of the word, if I'm not mistaken?

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by klover137006

Oh, neither does Swedish, but someone mentioned that punctuation is counted as part of the word, if I'm not mistaken?

I've never noticed punctuation being counted as part of the word.

[klover137006]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

I've never noticed punctuation being counted as part of the word.

That's good, hopefully it doesn't, and I'm just mistaken. Just thought I read it somewhere...

[jackie_w]

Originally Posted by klover137006

That's good, hopefully it doesn't, and I'm just mistaken. Just thought I read it somewhere...

Yes, you did. It can be seen in kepubs. For example, if you have included this CSS in your kepub

    -webkit-hyphenate-limit-before: 2;
    -webkit-hyphenate-limit-after: 3;

you may see something like this:

Strange hyphenati-
on.

For reasons best known to whoever wrote the kepub rendering app the punctuation seems to count as one of the characters.

For this reason I never have -webkit-hyphenate-limit-after set to anything less than 3.

[davidfor]

Originally Posted by jackie_w

Yes, you did. It can be seen in kepubs. For example, if you have included this CSS in your kepub

    -webkit-hyphenate-limit-before: 2;
    -webkit-hyphenate-limit-after: 3;

you may see something like this:

Strange hyphenati-
on.

For reasons best known to whoever wrote the kepub rendering app the punctuation seems to count as one of the characters.

For this reason I never have -webkit-hyphenate-limit-after set to anything less than 3.

That's annoying and makes me happy with my ragged-right preference

The interesting thing is that the punctuation probably should be considered when deciding to split the word, but, it shouldn't be included when deciding where to put the split. I wonder if this is one of those cases where the programmer/designer/whoever decided to fix it later when they had time to think about it properly and that time has never arrived.

[klover137006]

Originally Posted by Anak

It is impossilbe to get (perfectly) correct hyphenation files, but maybe you can find updated/improved hypenation files from LibreOffice or OpenOffice.

Add the following to the .dic (after UTF-8):

LEFTHYPHENMIN 3
RIGHTHYPHENMIN 3

Change the values, and make sure that file is saved as UTF-8.

This prevents breaking shorter words: jus-tificat-ion, jus-tificati-on.
This doesn't fix breaking words at the correct position. Note: interpunction is also 'counted' as a character.

Example:

UTF-8
LEFTHYPHENMIN 3
RIGHTHYPHENMIN 3
.a4
.aan5
.a4a4
…

Replace the Dutch hyphenation dictionary with a hyphenation dictionary that matches your language (try hyphenation files for OpenOffice/LibreOffice)
and change the symlink too.
Use 7-zip so you can drag and drop a hyphenation file in

\usr\local\Kobo\hyphenDicts\

and change the symlink by pressing F2 in

\usr\share\hyphen\

Note: the attached file isn't a rar file. remove .rar (KoboRoot-nl-hyp-dic.tgz) and rename it to KoboRoot.tgz to install it.

Wohoo! I've now had time to follow these steps and the Swedish hyphenation now seems much better! I've browsed through a KePub and have yet to find an erroneous hyphenation.

I downloaded your .tgz file and replaced the hyph-nl.dic with a Swedish hyphenation file (a slightly modified .tex file from hyphenation.org/tex) renamed to hyph-nl.dic and copied the tgz file to the .kobo folder in order to patch it. And now everything seems to work fine.

Thank you!

(I'm guessing it works better now because I replaced an official language, but perhaps I should try using the same file named as hyph-sv.dic and see if it still works...?)

[Anak]

You don't have to replace an existing language hyphenation dictionary.
You could add a Swedish hyphenation dictionary as "Svenska" is supported by Kobo readers, so this should work.

adding: hyph_sv.dic (underscore; assuming that the country abbreviation is correct)
make sure that the symlink uses the same abbreviation and the .dic file is saved as UTF-8.

[jackie_w]

Originally Posted by davidfor

That's annoying and makes me happy with my ragged-right preference

The interesting thing is that the punctuation probably should be considered when deciding to split the word, but, it shouldn't be included when deciding where to put the split. I wonder if this is one of those cases where the programmer/designer/whoever decided to fix it later when they had time to think about it properly and that time has never arrived.

I kind-of wish I could train myself to think that ragged right looks acceptable, but it's never going to happen. It would irritate me on every single page whereas odd hyphenation only happens on relatively few pages. Luckily I read only in English, mostly on a big screen Forma and don't need a particularly large font-size (yet) so it reduces the weirdness frequency down to manageable levels.

[klover137006]

Originally Posted by Anak

You don't have to replace an existing language hyphenation dictionary.
You could add a Swedish hyphenation dictionary as "Svenska" is supported by Kobo readers, so this should work.

adding: hyph_sv.dic (underscore; assuming that the country abbreviation is correct)
make sure that the symlink uses the same abbreviation and the .dic file is saved as UTF-8.

You are right! Tried it now. Weird, wonder what I did wrong before? Perhaps the dictionaries were bad. Or perhaps the method of transferring them onto the Kobo was the problem (something with the symlink perhaps?).

SO, now the Swedish hyphenation works pretty good I'd say.

[Simboubou]

Hm, I didn't know about this weird kepub hyphen length thing. Maybe I should try again.

[Simboubou]

Hello there.

So I have tried this, modifying the dict with the values of 4 en 4 for both left and right hyphens.

However, when reading a Kepub, I still gets things like "me-mory" or, "pi-cked".

Is there something wrong with my archive ? Or is another option trumping the one in the dict ?

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Simboubou

Hello there.

So I have tried this, modifying the dict with the values of 4 en 4 for both left and right hyphens.

However, when reading a Kepub, I still gets things like "me-mory" or, "pi-cked".

Is there something wrong with my archive ? Or is another option trumping the one in the dict ?

When you have hyphenation on, the KoboTouchExtended driver puts in hyphenation values and the same goes with KePubify. They override what's in the dictionary.

My question is what is wrong with me-mory? Do you like the gaps?

[Simboubou]

No, "me-mory" is fine. "Pi-cked" is not as good. And worse, I sometime see "th-ing"

It's just that I try to setup the hyphenation so that it doesn't hyphenate too often.
I'm usually fine with no hyphens, but I've grown more aware of stretched lines. So I'd like to have hyphens, only not too aggressive ones. That's why I'm trying to set the min lenght to higher values.

The kobotouchExtended driver, you say ? Is that when I use calibre epub to kepub conversion ? Or is it when I transfert the file ? How do I change that, is that the "extra css" tab when converting ?

When I convert books to kepub, I don't select the "activate hyphenation" option. So hyphens are only on when I set my kobo to Justify.

Thanks !

EDIT : ok, to I edited the hyphenation.css of KoboTouchExtended to this:

* {
	-webkit-hyphens: auto;
	-moz-hyphens: auto;
	hyphens: auto;

	-webkit-hyphenate-after: 4;
	-webkit-hyphenate-before: 4;
	-webkit-hyphenate-lines: 2;
	hyphenate-after: 4;
	hyphenate-before: 4;
	hyphenate-lines: 2;
}

h1, h2, h3, h4, h5, h6, td {
	-moz-hyphens: none !important;
	-webkit-hyphens: none !important;
	hyphens: none !important;
}

Then forced the hyphenation during kepub convertion. And I STILL have two-letters hyphens.

RE-EDIT: Gosh, I think it worked with -webkit-hyphenate-limit-after.

[shalym]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

When you have hyphenation on, the KoboTouchExtended driver puts in hyphenation values and the same goes with KePubify. They override what's in the dictionary.

My question is what is wrong with me-mory? Do you like the gaps?

It should actually be "mem-ory". Words are supposed to break at the syllable break.

If I saw that, it would take me out of the story more than the gaps would.

Shari