Fonts won't embed on Kindle Fire

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by Quoth

Well, if you convert to an AZW in Calibre, by default it's KF8 and ends in .azw
If you make a mobi in Calibre, by default it's old mobi (KF7?) and ends in .mobi, though I only make dual mobis in Calibre, purely for Smashwords' Kindle downloads. They end in mobi.

Yes, we're saying the same thing. I'm saying that if you build a file, with the file extension, "MOBI" in Calilbre, you get a KF7 which means, ixnay on the fonts. The OP, I believe, or some other folks, mentioned "MOBI" (in the colloquial sense) and I was trying to make it clear that if he's building a MOBI via Calibre, and then looking for fonts, he's making himself nuts for no good reason.

And on Kindles you have to select Publisher on aA even if it's a dual or azw, on most Kindles, to see the original embedded fonts. Which needs 3.x something or later FW. So an updated Kindle Keyboard, but not the slightly later DXG as it never got that option (not enough RAM because it's really a DX with a newer screen).

Yes, that too. I thought we'd mentioned it here, but perhaps we didn't. I have been discussing this, or a similar topic, somewhere and maybe I've confused or conflated the two conversations.

Thanks for clarifying that for the OP.

Hitch

[Quoth]

Though Calibre CAN make a file that ends in mobi and has KF7, KF8 and fonts. What's called Dual mobi. I don't think those sensibly end in azw.
A Kindle DXG can load a dual mobi ending in .mobi, it can't load an AZW. You only get the KF7 bit.
An up to date Kindle Keyboard can show the KF7 or KF8 of a dual mobi. It seems to also be able to load some azw, but Amazon only gives it mobi files.
The PW3 can work with old mobi/ KF7, dual mobi (and show the KF8), azw3/KF8 (Amazon's default USB transfer for it) or KFX (Whispernet/WiFi direct from Amazon).

In all cases even if it's KFX or Azw3/KF8 on my PW3, it seems to need the Aa option and Publisher to show embedded fonts, but if ALL the required fonts aren't embedded the results can look worse than selecting the built in font.

OTH all the epub ereaders I have automatically use the embedded fonts, except an ancient Binatone, where that only works if you put the ebook in the Adobe directory rather than Books (I forget the exact name of both directories). There seem to be four common different Binatone LCD based ereaders, though one is actually a full Android Tablet with a QWERTY keyboard, too ancient for Playstore, but many USB transferred Android apps work. None have touch. There is allegedly also an old eink Binatone, but I've not seen it and reviews suggest it doesn't really work.

A user needs to carefully read all the screens the first time they use Calibre to convert.
Some old PDA ebook formats use the SAME file ending for incompatible unrelated ebooks for different Palm applications. Calibre can make the different kinds, if you set the options.

So in Calibre, it's not enough to set a Target Option (epub, pdb, mobi etc), there are additional options to set which can be made the new default. The fresh install defaults may not be what are needed.
Example: On Page and Image formatting there are a huge number of devices. Tablet actually means "Don't reformat". Selecting any other particular target can have unexpected results for images already generally suitable.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by Quoth

Though Calibre CAN make a file that ends in mobi and has KF7, KF8 and fonts. What's called Dual mobi. I don't think those sensibly end in azw.

Which option is that? I see MOBI (KF7) and AZW3 (dual). I do not see any dual output with "MOBI" file extension that has both KF7 and KF8. I'm not intimately familiar with Calibre, but I do use it to perform some functions, on my Project Gutenberg downloads, for my personal consumption (for hyphenation, etc., for MOBI) and in my experience, you either get a KF7 .mobi, or a Dual AZW3. Can you elaborate, and show me where that dual MOBI option is, that is not AZW3?

A Kindle DXG can load a dual mobi ending in .mobi, it can't load an AZW. You only get the KF7 bit.

But...you can email an AZW3 file to your Kindle DXG, yes? I mean, it loads--what you're saying is you only get the KF7 part. I'm reasonably sure that I've done that, or perhaps, again, I'm hallucinating. The AZW3 gets converted to Amazon's current format-du-jour?

An up to date Kindle Keyboard can show the KF7 or KF8 of a dual mobi. It seems to also be able to load some azw, but Amazon only gives it mobi files.
The PW3 can work with old mobi/ KF7, dual mobi (and show the KF8), azw3/KF8 (Amazon's default USB transfer for it) or KFX (Whispernet/WiFi direct from Amazon).

Yes. I have several devices in those lines and they all work with KF8. Or KF7. That's not a problem. I was focusing, again, on the output that the OP would get, from Calibre, with a .mobi file extension.

In all cases even if it's KFX or Azw3/KF8 on my PW3, it seems to need the Aa option and Publisher to show embedded fonts, but if ALL the required fonts aren't embedded the results can look worse than selecting the built in font.

Yes.

OTH all the epub ereaders I have automatically use the embedded fonts, except an ancient Binatone, where that only works if you put the ebook in the Adobe directory rather than Books (I forget the exact name of both directories). There seem to be four common different Binatone LCD based ereaders, though one is actually a full Android Tablet with a QWERTY keyboard, too ancient for Playstore, but many USB transferred Android apps work. None have touch. There is allegedly also an old eink Binatone, but I've not seen it and reviews suggest it doesn't really work.

Yup, agreed here.

A user needs to carefully read all the screens the first time they use Calibre to convert.
Some old PDA ebook formats use the SAME file ending for incompatible unrelated ebooks for different Palm applications. Calibre can make the different kinds, if you set the options.

So in Calibre, it's not enough to set a Target Option (epub, pdb, mobi etc), there are additional options to set which can be made the new default. The fresh install defaults may not be what are needed.
Example: On Page and Image formatting there are a huge number of devices. Tablet actually means "Don't reformat". Selecting any other particular target can have unexpected results for images already generally suitable.

I'll defer to your expertise on this--I don't know enough about Calibre to intelligently discuss this last bit.

Hitch

[NIRC]

Thanks for the suggestions. I think I got partway to solving the problem by converting the epub (where the embedded fonts are about half the size of the originals, so I am guessing they are "obfuscated") to AZW. I then convert that to mobi by opening it in Kindle Previewer 3. When I export it and send it to my Kindle Fire, it displays perfectly. (I would add that it makes no difference if I choose "publishers fonts" or not.)
When I then open that exported file in Kindle Previewer 3, it also displays correctly, though with the error message that it was "created with an older version of Kindle Generator that will not be supported in the future."
So far, so good. But when I try to load it into the KDP internet site, it is rejected with the error message: "There was a problem processing your file." I repeated the generation process from scratch and tried again. Same results. (I would add that the size is well within the 650 megabyte limit.)
Any ideas?

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by NIRC

Thanks for the suggestions. I think I got partway to solving the problem by converting the epub (where the embedded fonts are about half the size of the originals, so I am guessing they are "obfuscated") to AZW. I then convert that to mobi by opening it in Kindle Previewer 3. When I export it and send it to my Kindle Fire, it displays perfectly. (I would add that it makes no difference if I choose "publishers fonts" or not.)

FWIW, that--that you didn't need to turn on Publisher Fonts--leads me to believe that you've embedded the font in such a way that it's forced on the reader--that they can't turn it off. If that's the case, you'll have to fix that before you upload it to KDP.

When I then open that exported file in Kindle Previewer 3, it also displays correctly, though with the error message that it was "created with an older version of Kindle Generator that will not be supported in the future."

Yes, because, Calibre.

So far, so good. But when I try to load it into the KDP internet site, it is rejected with the error message: "There was a problem processing your file." I repeated the generation process from scratch and tried again. Same results. (I would add that the size is well within the 650 megabyte limit.)
Any ideas?

Yes, but not one that's helpful, unfortunately. That's the message you get with a file that has a corruption or bad code issue and there's no simple error-message to deal with it.

It's likely the font, because despite your luck with it, obfuscated fonts cannot be used at KDP/Kindlegen. They won't build properly and whilst your earlier result seemed to indicate some success (not sure how), if the fonts ARE obfuscated, it won't/can't work. Now, it's entirely possible that they're not in fact obfuscated, but subset, but the bottom line is, you're guessing.

You're guessing, and we are, because you're using a process that does not get inside the code. This is the problem with how you're working--you're using InDesign, which tells you nothing, really; then you're using Calibre, which is "push button" without you having to know anything and now you have a result that doesn't tell you anything.

I'm sorry, but you're asking us all to play Pin the Tail on the Troubleshooting. Can't be done like this.

Hitch

[Quoth]

Only upload epub2 to KDP, unless you are doing fixed layout.
Forget about making mobi or azw. Anything is best directly converted from epub2 in Calibre and the best starting point, unless you want to use Sigil or edit CSS and/or HTML is a properly styled docx made in Word or LO Writer, but only edit native odt in Writer and use an extra Save As docx for export.

Also InDesign and then conversion is a bad solution. Either have an Indesign plugin for the type of thing you want, or don't use it. It's really for paper/PDFs and other fixed layout documents.

[Quoth]

Oh, and also while subset fonts should work, I can't get it to work. It's a good principle not to have too many fonts anyway. Some indeed are very large due to supporting almost every glyph in the last 4000 years.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by Quoth

Oh, and also while subset fonts should work, I can't get it to work. It's a good principle not to have too many fonts anyway. Some indeed are very large due to supporting almost every glyph in the last 4000 years.

We do.

How are you subsetting and what's the example of how it doesn't work, Q?

Hitch

[NIRC]

I apologize for frustrating those of you who would like specific questions regarding the code. I just don't know how to access that information or what I should be looking for. All I know is this: I got the mobi file to work perfectly in the Kindle Previewer and on my Kindle fire, but the KDP page rejects it. If someone could tell me what to check, I will try my best to catch up, but I am really ignorant when it comes to tracking down the source of the problem. I would be happy to supply the mobi file if necessary.
(By the way, I have only one proprietary font in the file.)

[JSWolf]

There is no such thing as a dual format .azw. The dual Kindle eBooks use .mobi. This is from Kindlegen.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

There is no such thing as a dual format .azw. The dual Kindle eBooks use .mobi. This is from Kindlegen.

Jon, dammit, we're trying to troubleshoot now, right? We were specifically talking about CALIBRE output--right? Not what Kindlegn/KP3 exports/creates/outputs.

Thank you.

Hitch

[Quoth]

Originally Posted by Hitch

We do.

How are you subsetting and what's the example of how it doesn't work, Q?

Hitch

I tick the Calibre option to subset font and the conversion from docx to epub fails. Not today's worry. If I have a bunch of large fonts with only a few letter used then I'll capture the log and post on the Calibre forum. My file sizes are OK. The biggest culprit is the advertising matter at the back with covers of maybe 20 books. The least used font might be the chapter headings.

It's possible it's one particular font Calibre chokes on when trying to create a subset? I didn't investigate yet.

[Doitsu]

Originally Posted by Quoth

It's possible it's one particular font Calibre chokes on when trying to create a subset? I didn't investigate yet.

You can also subset fonts with Calibre after the docx to epub conversion by selecting Polish Books > Subset all embedded fonts.

Shameless plug: If Calibre fails to subset your fonts, you could also try my quick & dirty Sigil font subsetting plugin.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by Quoth

I tick the Calibre option to subset font and the conversion from docx to epub fails. Not today's worry. If I have a bunch of large fonts with only a few letter used then I'll capture the log and post on the Calibre forum. My file sizes are OK. The biggest culprit is the advertising matter at the back with covers of maybe 20 books. The least used font might be the chapter headings.

It's possible it's one particular font Calibre chokes on when trying to create a subset? I didn't investigate yet.

Originally Posted by Doitsu

You can also subset fonts with Calibre after the docx to epub conversion by selecting Polish Books > Subset all embedded fonts.

Shameless plug: If Calibre fails to subset your fonts, you could also try my quick & dirty Sigil font subsetting plugin.

What Doits says^. Don't subset on the way "in." Subset when it's done. Works a treat as does Doits' font subsetting plugin.

Hitch

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by NIRC

I apologize for frustrating those of you who would like specific questions regarding the code. I just don't know how to access that information or what I should be looking for. All I know is this: I got the mobi file to work perfectly in the Kindle Previewer and on my Kindle fire, but the KDP page rejects it. If someone could tell me what to check, I will try my best to catch up, but I am really ignorant when it comes to tracking down the source of the problem. I would be happy to supply the mobi file if necessary.
(By the way, I have only one proprietary font in the file.)

Supplying the mobi or preferably the original epub file would probably be the best way to go. Otherwise we are just guessing as to what your problem is. As for the content of the epub file, there is a calibre plugin called ScrambleEbook which is intended to allow the structure of your epub to be viewed and edited but turns the text content into junk.