MobileRead Discussion: A Christmas Carol by Charles Dickens

[Nyssa]

The first and best impression reading this left with me, is the realization that Dickens had a sense of humor. Only having read Great Expectations before (and as a young teen), I did not know that about him and his writting.

What are you favorite parts, scenes and/or quotes from The Christmas Carol (funny or otherwise)?

I have a few, but the following two made me laugh:

Old Marley was as dead as a door-nail. *Mind! I don’t mean to say that I know, of my own knowledge, what there is particularly dead about a door-nail. I might have been inclined, myself, to regard a coffin-nail as the deadest piece of ironmongery in the trade. But the wisdom of our ancestors is in the simile;

and

Oh! But he was a tight-fisted hand at the grindstone, Scrooge! a squeezing, wrenching, grasping, scraping, clutching, covetous, old sinner!

I think that this is an interesting addition to this discussion:

Campaign To Honour Real-Life Ebenezer Scrooge John Elwes

[WT Sharpe]

An interesting article, Hamlet53. It's always fascinating to ponder where authors got the inspiration for some of their most interesting characters, although the article seems to hint that perhaps John Elwes's miserly ways extended only to himself and his personal habits. Prior to his visit by the four specters, Dicken's Scrooge would never have "spent a fortune on the redevelopment of London’s West End."

I also love the quote from the novel, which somehow failed to jump out at me when I read it:

Darkness is cheap, and Scrooge liked it.

[JSWolf]

The way I see it, Scrooge had a shock to the system (sort of). First he sees the door knocker change to be Marley's face. Then he sees Marley's ghost with all the chains. Then he get ghost of the past and goes to the past. He sees himself all alone in the school. Then we see him a little bit older and learn his father didn't want him at home and he had a sister that died in childbirth. We also see him at his first job and he falls in love and that falls apart as he gets more successful and wanting to make more money.

Next he gets the ghost of the present and we see Bob Cratchett and his family and Tiny Tim. Scrooge did not know the circumstances Cratchett was in and the situation with Tiny Tim. He also sees his Nephews house and how happy they are playing silly games and just being together.

Finally he gets the ghost of the future and learns of a man who died and nobody liked him at all. That life is better off without him. Also, he's found out that Tiny Tim has died. He finally finds out that it's his death and that really gave a shock to him.

All of these things combined really has show Scrooge the light. It's changed him. He didn't want to be that man who died alone. He didn't want Tiny Tim to have died. He changed so what he saw in the future would not come to pass.

He knew he could do something about the rest of his life and he did.

[WT Sharpe]

Maybe the story would have ended differently had antipsychotics been available in the 19th century.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by WT Sharpe

Maybe the story would have ended differently had antipsychotics been available in the 19th century.

Some think it was all a dream and that Scrooge thought it was real.

[Billi]

Originally Posted by HarryT

One question I'd like to bring up for discussion:

ACC is self-evidently a Christmas story, but is it an overtly Christian story?

So, after reading so many answers: what do you think yourself about it, what's your opinion?

[HarryT]

It's an interesting point, and I'm in two minds about it.

Dickens was certainly a practising Christian, but it's evident from many of the portrayals of clergymen in his books that he thought that there was a lot of hypocrisy in the Church.

On the whole, I'd agree with those who say no, it's not overtly Christian. It's about treating people like human beings, no matter how poor they are, and how low their social status might be (Dickens was very big on social reform, of course).

I've seen it suggested in commentaries on ACC that Bob Cratchett's family celebration should be interpreted as a reinterpretation of the "Last Supper", with Tiny Tim in the role of Jesus, but I don't see this myself.

At the end of the day I see it as a great "feel-good" story, which tries to show that it's never too late to repent and start doing good.

[pdurrant]

I think I'd agree that it's not really a Christian story, even though it's about Christmas. Whereas, for example, The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe is very clearly a Christian story.

But then, Christmas isn't really Christian either!

I did enjoy reading the book, having just seen the 1951 film adaptation with Alastair Sim.

It did seem to me that a glossary is needed for some of the archaic terms and references, but there was nothing that I didn't understand that spoiled the story.

It's definitely written in a humorous style. A very good choice indeed for the book club this December.

[fsirett]

Originally Posted by WT Sharpe

One thing that has always disappointed me about the story, both in the book and the screen adaptations I've seen, is Scrooge's reaction at the end of the story. Not that he turns his life around, and not that he is transformed from a mean, small-hearted miser into a generous human being who learns the meaning of charity, but that he is transformed from a dispicable yet wholly recognizable character into a giddy, silly, prancing idiot. I would hate having the former in my life, but I'd secretly want to slap the latter.

I am new to the forum, so please excuse me for jumping in.

First, the best version of A Christmas Carol made for the screen, or at least the best "Ebeneezer Scrooge" is the 1952 film starring Alistair Sim. I believe that film adds much to our understanding of the man. I might be prejudiced on two counts. First I think Sim was one of the great actors of all time, and second, I see elements of the story rarely expressed.

At the time of Dickens, economic Darwinism was a very popular attitude and the cut and thrust of business used very sharp weapons indeed. That was the world that Scrooge was living in.

However, when Sim quotes a joke, he chuckles a little, He is not really so hard hearted as usually described, but he is living in a world where any exposure of softness is exploited by his competitors.

It is also clear, and certainly a Puritan example, that Scrooge begrudged that softness even to himself. The other business people did not deny themselves the comforts of life, but they did deny them to their inferiors their inferiors.

As I see it, that is crucial to the story. Those others were knowing hypocrites and would never have done for the story. Scrooge was no hypocrite, but why not?

Did Scrooge believe if he showed a chink he would fail? Was he always aware of the hardships he was applying to others and felt he had to keep faith with those who were supplying him with so much?
Was he aware of just how close he was to the reverse?

To my mind, Scrooge was a good man in a bad world and the story was not illustrative of a bad world filled with good men. that seems more in keeping with the entirety of Dickens' work.

The ghosts need not be true, physical (sort of) manifestations, but true internal manifestations of his own true self. The turn was not really so surprising.

Yes, he had to exist in a pitiless world to accumulate his world. He feared poverty, as many did at the time, and this, and he was intelligent enough to be able to thrive in that world, or any other that he turned his hand.

Were the ghosts really just memories and emotions that were crowding to the surface? Was he coming to a conscious awareness of the world around him and coming to the knowledge that the wealth he had acquired might have been worth less than the coin to be found in human interaction?

I have more of a suspicion that Dickens was of the belief that Scrooge, rather than a unique character, a universal example, believing that the business of grasping at brass was crushing a humanity that existed deep within and most were aware of the hypocrisy and, deep down, cursed it.

That seems to be what Sim tried to present, and, If Dickens had written a longer book, may easily have illustrated far more clearly.

At least that is my opinion.

[drofgnal]

I'm partial to the 1938 version of A Christmas Carol with Reginald Owen. It's the one TCM shows every year. I haven't seen the 1952 version, if it comes on I'll check it out.

Another one I liked as a kid was Mr. Magoo's Christmas Carol. Occasionally it will be on one of the cartoon channels for Christmas

[conan50]

Originally Posted by HarryT

One question I'd like to bring up for discussion:

ACC is self-evidently a Christmas story, but is it an overtly Christian story?

Christian ethics underlie the story. Biggest one: Redemption. No one is so far gone that they are beyond redemption.

[issybird]

Originally Posted by conan50

Christian ethics underlie the story. Biggest one: Redemption. No one is so far gone that they are beyond redemption.

One of the unresolved issues for me is Jacob Marley. Is his being the instrument of Scrooge’s redemption part of his punishment? Was he also offered a similar shot at redemption (and thus also increasing his remorse) or is Scrooge luckier? The Church of England doesn’t hold with Purgatory so we have to assume there’s nothing in it for Marley.

[drofgnal]

Originally Posted by issybird

One of the unresolved issues for me is Jacob Marley. Is his being the instrument of Scrooge’s redemption part of his punishment? Was he also offered a similar shot at redemption (and thus also increasing his remorse) or is Scrooge luckier? The Church of England doesn’t hold with Purgatory so we have to assume there’s nothing in it for Marley.

I took his wandering the afterlife as his punishment, he even indicates to Scrooge not to die without changing your ways or you'll suffer the same fate as I did. (not an exact quote). I took all this to mean that Marley didn't repent the error of his ways before passing, so he got his punishment. I don't read anything into him being offered a similar shot at redemption. Why he chose or was sent to Scrooge to change before it's too late is anyone's guess.