10-07-2021, 03:30 PM | #16 |
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I'm not sure if Heyer's cant is genuine Regency slang, her own invention, or something inbetween -- I've read claims either way. I can't remember any Heyer-ish expressions from Austen, so that's an argument on the non-authentic side. But I quite like both fantasy vocabulary and unfamiliar vocabulary as part of worldbuilding, so that part of Heyer's books are fine to me.
Infodumps are also something I'm willing to tolerate. Sometimes they're even an attraction in themselves, like Pratchett's footnotes Heyer's infodumps are more in the skim-past-to-get-back-to-the-story category, though, and I quite get why some readers find them too annoying. I liked The Corinthian, am ambivalent on The Grand Sophy (marred by blatant antisemtism, and I didn't like the treatment of Eugenia (or whatever her name was -- the fiancee of the main male love interest)), and found An Infamous Army pretty meh. The Unknown Ajax was funny, and I also liked Venetia. KJ Charles has written her own version of Venetia: Band Sinister. I liked it a lot. Unlike Heyer, Charles has explicit sex in her books, that might be a drawback for some readers. (She wrote an interesting article about consent in sex scenes, where one of her examples is from Band Sinister.) I reread some of my Heyer favourites when I'm in the mood for something light and funny |
10-10-2021, 07:12 PM | #17 |
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What are examples of the made-up/not-made-up Regency slang in Heyer? I have never read her books, but Regency romances have enjoyed wide popularity for many years now, and I'm familiar with a fair number of them and the slang they employ, which I assumed was genuine, as the terms are repeated from book to book.
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10-10-2021, 10:52 PM | #18 | |
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10-11-2021, 11:15 AM | #19 | |
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10-11-2021, 12:41 PM | #20 | |
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Some of those pre-date Regency era or also had more general meaning, like Wikipedia writes in the article on the Biblical Abigail:
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I started reading the books mentioned Northanger Abbey and their "Gothic" predecessors. Corinthian also probably predates Regency era and by the the Victorian era meant a sporting man, loads of Victorian era origin clubs have Corinthian in the name. Some aspects seem like proto-rhyming slang, the Cockey kind starting 100 years later in mid 19th C. Other words seem to be from soldiers and the Napoleonic wars. Ape-leader for spinster is certainly real Regency. Beau Brummell was real and resulted in Dandies and Macaronis and Slang. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dandy The ton was also a real term. Perhaps Heyer was a little given to overplaying her hand on Regency Cant or Slang, but I think she didn't knowing make it up. Of course she is more imitated than the real Regency Era writers. The Era is really more than the time of the actual Regency. Queen Victoria lived 24 May 1819 to 22 January 1901 and became Queen in 1837, but the Cultural, Empire and Technological era is from a little before her birth till WWI. Volta published about batteries and Electricity in 1800, Frankenstein or The Modern Prometheus by Mary Shelly in 1816 uses the aspect of Electricity debunked by Volta in 1799 and in the 1840s and 1850s it was cheaper to see the play than buy the book. The British Empire peaked in 1921. So though the actual Regency was only 1811 to 1820, the overall era is taken as 1795 to 1837, or 1795 to 1820. Heyer did some Georgian, pre-Regency style stories. Edit * Children of the Abbey is mentioned in Emma by Austin. Last edited by Quoth; 10-11-2021 at 01:02 PM. |
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10-11-2021, 01:16 PM | #21 | ||||
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I've only skimmed this article: Georgette Heyer and the language of the historical novel, but the conclusion says:
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Last edited by hildea; 10-11-2021 at 01:21 PM. |
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10-11-2021, 01:56 PM | #22 | |
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10-11-2021, 02:16 PM | #23 | |
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It reads like modern but set in the period, like books written today set in Jacobean or Elizabethan era England, Scotland or Ireland are basically modern English with some period phrases, like Heyer, often over done. Shakespeare nor King James Bible aren't actually contemporary Jacobean prose. The current King James isn't even original. The later Douay–Rheims Bible is closer to Jacobean and the original of it is hard to read (most of the available versions are much later revisions). It's actually very difficult to authentically write even in 1920s style, harder to do authentic Victorian, harder still Regency, Georgian, Jacobean/Elizabethan and it gets harder to read it. Irish is worse. Most English speakers can't read Chaucer, or even Robbie Burns. Probably more people can read 1st C. Latin* than Native Irish speakers can read 12th C. Irish. The Normans "reformed" spelling of a lot of Anglo-Saxon words that are still in use. *Though most people's pronunciation of Latin is totally wrong. Julius Caesar. That "j" is an initial "i" and real Latin C is just like in Irish, always a "k" sound. Last edited by Quoth; 10-11-2021 at 02:21 PM. |
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10-11-2021, 02:23 PM | #24 | |
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I agree that it would be difficult for a modern author to write authentically in the style of an earlier era. Probably the best they can do is try to write characters who act in a manner appropriate to their time period and avoid using any modern-day slang. Maybe throw in an occasional period slang word for flavor. |
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10-11-2021, 03:28 PM | #25 | |||
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10-11-2021, 03:36 PM | #26 | |
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THIS! It might be very difficult to know which words writers of the time DID use, but it's very easy to know which ones they did NOT. My recent bad experience with an anachronism-riddled Hindi translation of The Jungle Book reminded me how jarring such "time jumps" are and how effectively they take one out of the story. |
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10-11-2021, 03:54 PM | #27 | |
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One of the most annoying anachronisms I've seen is an author describing customer service employees with name tags in 1909. (At least I assume it's an anachronism -- I may be wrong, of course, but it felt really out of place!) |
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10-11-2021, 03:59 PM | #28 | |
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Of course modern words you'd use with magical stuff ONLY had magical connotations originally and predated Austin. Such as Enchanting (one that casts enchantments), Glamorous (one that deludes with glamour), Fey (as in sort of psychic, the fairy creatures are the Fay). Also some words used today didn't mean the same to Austin or her contemporaries. Sometimes it's obvious from context. So it's harder than a vocabulary. |
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10-11-2021, 04:15 PM | #29 | |
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Even now it's rare here & UK in locally owned businesses. I'm curious now to research and see did any big NY department store do that in 1909. I'd not place any bet either way! Historical before you were a teenager is really hard to get the details right. Also some modern cinema and TV of Victorian things make the stuff OLDER than say Sherlock Homes books. But some rural places in 1950s in the UK were still quite mid Victorian in some respects. About 1/4 of England still had no Electricity in 1948. My dad's house in 1937 Belfast had none. They first got a mains radio when they moved two streets in 1938. Victorians had electric light, steam turbines in ships and for electricity, phones, telegraph, movies, colour photos as well as monochrome (though rare), wireless telegraphy, mechanical TV (rare), typewriters, duplicators (two kinds), gas mantels for gas lamps (but electric lamps were earlier!), torpedoes, submarines, the CRT (but no amplifying valves), electric hearing aids, acoustic P.A. using a diaphragm, two combs and compressed air, dry batteries, vaccines etc. Steam, electric, petrol and diesel vehicles at the same time. H. G. Wells despite writing SF, had Ironclads (invented during USA Civil War) in the War of the Worlds, but those metal clad wooden ships were already obsolete. I don't think the British Navy had any then. Elizabethan era is trickier than tricky Jacobean. Last edited by Quoth; 10-11-2021 at 04:22 PM. |
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10-11-2021, 04:21 PM | #30 |
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