Any Thoughts on the First 13.3" Color E-Ink Tablet Set for Release May 2024?

[Quoth]

Originally Posted by Greg001

Is this MEH a definite review of the device? does it have any redeeming qualities?

Battery life in bright outdoors when front-light is off.

[pdurrant]

Originally Posted by Quoth

Battery life in bright outdoors when front-light is off.

It doesn't have a front light!

[Quoth]

Originally Posted by pdurrant

It doesn't have a front light!

So you need a floodlight indoors.

A front-light is really hard to do on a big screen, though not impossible.

I was comparing Kobo Sage (also Elipsa), regular glossy glass LCD with budget "backlight" and NxtPaper 11 in daylight, twilight, decent ambient light, and a spotlight shining inappropriately.
Later I'll do some photos and explanations, but basically the eink only beats the Nxtpaper 11 for diffuse ambient light bright enough to read a pulp paper pocket/MM paperback. The budget LCD always loses and is unusable if any light source is reflected off the glass. Also once you need the eInk front light, the advantage of eink is lost over a good LCD, but it still beats a cheap LCD by a big margin.

It's really complicated.

1. The best is mono eink with a micro-textured finish on a plastic top layer, no touch layers and no light-pipe layer above the screen. The texture breaks down and diffuses sharper light sources. The black balls in the cells seem to be matt finish. Under macro photography the black cells look like they have copier toner or soot. The more the top layer breaks up reflections, the fuzzier the text gets. I've not seen a Kindle Voyage, but I suspect it has minimal texture on the top layer.
2. The second best is mono eink with IR touch and light-pipe for front light. The IR touch uses no layers. The layer for the front light will reduce the text sharpness.
3. Then we have capacitive touch as well as front-light with mono eink. This uses a layer(s) with transparent tin pattern that increases reflection, reduces panel contrast and sharpness. Having this as part of eink panel is a slight improvement compared to a separate touch panel, but not as much as claimed.
4. Next best for mono text, but far better for colour or greyscale is any emissive or transmissive screen with a special matt surface on a dark top layer (neutral density filter). A polarised top layer helps and an LCD must have one in front and behind the active panel. This is really expensive and few CRTs from the 1980s to 2010 had it. Only the best quality LCD, OLED and Plasma screens ever had it and it's rare. If the neutral density matt surface reduces light to 1/3rd then reflections from lower levels are reduced to 1/6th. The backlight (LCD), Plasma, CRT, or OLED needs to be x3 brighter compared to no filter. As with texture there is a compromise density. The coating used on CRTs, Plasma, and big LCDs originally would wear off quickly on a touch screen, so expensive micro-etched dark glass is used instead. This is very very rare on phones and tablets and quite rare on the desktop.
5. The common flat screens use polished clear glass, so no reduction of reflection from lower levels, but can be brighter. Usually set too bright. The cheap panels have the light-pipe behind an LCD illuminated with one row of LEDs at one edge giving very uneven illumination. The OLED are not real LEDs, they are electroluminescent dots with a phosphor and often a top corrective filter. Most TVs & monitors described as as LED are LCD with LED backlights. They used to use CCFL tubes. The QLED is LCD with pure blue LED backlighting and quantum dots on the LCD panel to convert (not filter) blue to red or green.
6. Finally there is Color eink. There are only two kinds for readers (Gallery is too slow). Triton uses stripes and is very dark because the 4000 approx shades and colours are saturated, so the resolution is 1/3rd in one direction. Kaleido uses a 2 x 2 pattern and the version 3.0 is very pastel to brighten it, but that reduces saturation. In the 4000+ shades, some are colour tinted. So the resolution is 1/2 in both directions. The snag is the filter has reflectance.

The only new thing about NxtPaper seems to be a more durable top layer on the glass. The next big step for it would be to use a QLED (quantum dots on LCD with blue backlight) panel for even better sunlight performance, or lower power indoors, though the charge life runs into days of use.
The Elipsa at about 227 dpi is only noticeably less sharp than the 300 dpi Sage with fine scanned text on a PDF. With a good screen orientated computer font there is little difference. But the similar colour resolution NxtPaper 11 is as sharp as the 300 dpi Sage in most cases, no doubt due to over 250 levels of grey vs 14 for greyscale anti-aliasing and sub-pixel addressing. Also the pixels on the Elipsa seem fuzzy compared to the LCD pixels, so horizontals and verticals are sharper on the LCD. OTOH, the 150 dpi of the 9.7″ Kindle DXG is poor even jail broken with a nicer font. Scanned text on a PDF is terrible. Currently only the very best color eink are as much as 150 dpi.

I don't need to buy a color eink to know it's greatly inferior to mono eink and premium LCD panels (it will beat cheap LCDs assuming you've enough ambient light). The physics is against it.
The TCL NxtPaper LCD and my particular (not any model LG) 23″ 4K HDR LG in controlled lighting beat any Apple iPad, Mac laptop or Mac monitor I've seen personally in their show room. I've also looked at €1200 second hand tablet in CEX no better than my last HD Lenovo Yoga Tab 10″ tablet (€230) which doesn't come close to my desktop LG, Samsung or QHD Benq monitors.

Mono eink has a niche future for dedicated ereaders. General purpose mono eink products are for fans. Color eink has no future unless Gallery 3 is morphed to a product with 100x faster screen update.

The non-eink refresh rates are mostly to suit video. The actual pixel response time is 0.3ms to 3ms. The very best eink is about 55ms at lower quality. Gallery 3 refresh is 1500ms!

Any flicker or tearing on modern LCDs is either too cheap back-lights or poor graphics drivers. I've even done flicker free HD video frame rate conversion by pointing a Canon EOS 70D in HD video mode (edit format, where every frame is a key frame) at the 4K HDR LG monitor.

[Frogm4n]

Originally Posted by Greg001

There is also a new 9 min promotional overview video released today (in Taiwanese) showing some of the capacities of the device at the following URL.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VC2T6rQFZZA&t=307s

At 6:20 they mention that it is a Wacom EMR stylus. That's nice to see.

[Quoth]

Originally Posted by Frogm4n

At 6:20 they mention that it is a Wacom EMR stylus. That's nice to see.

Some people like it, maybe because it's tablet powered. I've used it and three other protocols systems and the earlier Wacom since 1990s.
So I used 4 different models of stuff with a Wacom.

I prefer the competitors: Apple Pencil (iPad), NTrig/MPP (Surface3 & Kobo, earlier Surface used Wacom EMR), and USI 2.0, all of which I've used.

I don't know what system the Samsung S-Pen is and I've not used the Samsung.

All use a layer/system behind the display panel. Only resistive and capacitive use layers on top.

[readthinksurvive]

how are the qualities of 13.3 screen in terms of repair?? will it break easily, is the battery replaceable, and can it be rooted

[Quoth]

The 13.3 screen replacement alone will cost more than some 14″ tablets.

Android 9. Doesn't need rooted unless you are mad enough to try changing the OS and risk bricking it.

Mooink is a tiny niche Chinese company. See https://duckduckgo.com/?q=MooInk+pro&ia=web

Edit:
Maybe priced at $1099.99, so likely about €1300 inc delivery and VAT/Customs in Europe.

It's actually only 825 × 1100 pixels @ 103 ppi. It's misleading to quote the underlying mono panel resolution. LCDs do colour the same way and don't quote the mono resolution.
A modest 2000mAH LiPoly cell.
Chinese bookstore pre-installed.

From https://einkopedia.com/introducing-m...te-technology/ I recommend you don't preorder.

The Nxtpaper 14 is maybe 2880 x 1800 (16:10) and if it's 14.25" would be 238.33 ppi colour (mono ips panel is higher). It should be about €600, though not sure if that is pro or regular version. A button on edge switches to mono! Possibly 14G RAM and 256 G Flash. Available 2024. The Nxtpaper 11 (4G RAM, 128 G Flash) has a micro SD slot that works up to 1T byte. I have the Nxtpaper 11 and it's better than the Kobo Elipsa. I'll probably also get a Nxtpaper 14 for larger PDFs, picture books and magazines.

[readthinksurvive]

Originally Posted by Quoth

The 13.3 screen replacement alone will cost more than some 14″ tablets.

Android 9. Doesn't need rooted unless you are mad enough to try changing the OS and risk bricking it.

Mooink is a tiny niche Chinese company. See https://duckduckgo.com/?q=MooInk+pro&ia=web

Edit:
Maybe priced at $1099.99, so likely about €1300 inc delivery and VAT/Customs in Europe.

It's actually only 825 × 1100 pixels @ 103 ppi. It's misleading to quote the underlying mono panel resolution. LCDs do colour the same way and don't quote the mono resolution.
A modest 2000mAH LiPoly cell.
Chinese bookstore pre-installed.

From https://einkopedia.com/introducing-m...te-technology/ I recommend you don't preorder.

The Nxtpaper 14 is maybe 2880 x 1800 (16:10) and if it's 14.25" would be 238.33 ppi colour (mono ips panel is higher). It should be about €600, though not sure if that is pro or regular version. A button on edge switches to mono! Possibly 14G RAM and 256 G Flash. Available 2024. The Nxtpaper 11 (4G RAM, 128 G Flash) has a micro SD slot that works up to 1T byte. I have the Nxtpaper 11 and it's better than the Kobo Elipsa. I'll probably also get a Nxtpaper 14 for larger PDFs, picture books and magazines.

it does look cool , still i think it needs more time in innovation for a cool hybrid of lcd to paper

[Quoth]

Someone working in a Tech Company (a senior Engineer with PhD, not the cleaner) saw my TCL Nxtpaper 11.
him: "Is that a new kind of display Tech I somehow missed?"
me: "No, just a regular IPS LCD with decent quality backlight and front surface."

The display of the Nxtpaper 3.0 isn't anything really innovative. Some CRTs had such faceplates. The "innovation" seems to be having it robust enough for touch and a digitiser pen.

It's also got a very even backlight of very natural white.

[Lee3]

Mooink are too expensive. otherwise i would be interested

[rcentros]

Originally Posted by Greg001

Is this MEH a definite review of the device? does it have any redeeming qualities?

Over $1,000 for a device I don't want or need makes it a non-starter for me. (I realize this doesn't apply to everyone.) What I've seen of color E-Ink screens is that they are darker (murkier) than black and white E-Ink screens and require more front lighting, not less. And this one won't have any front light at all?

But mostly I'm posting here because I'm curious as to why this is put in the Sony forum instead of a more general forum. Is Mooink somehow related to Sony?

[Quoth]

Originally Posted by rcentros

But mostly I'm posting here because I'm curious as to why this is put in the Sony forum instead of a more general forum. Is Mooink somehow related to Sony?

No, they are a niche Chinese company.

I think it's been written that it's color clone of the Sony DPT 13.3. Which is a disaster of device, the best version being 1650 × 2200 with 206 dpi mono 14 shades, black and White. Certainly the earlier version DPT I looked at had no front light and was barely more than PDF viewer (the reMarkable I had certainly being a clone of the usability, which was poor for transfer and ebooks, really PDF & sketching)

I'm looking forward to a TCL NxtPaper 14 (maybe even the pro version, probably cheaper and better than an iPad).

[WillAdams]

Originally Posted by Quoth

I don't know what system the Samsung S-Pen is and I've not used the Samsung.

Samsung owns a significant stake in Wacom and this allows them to have a current-generation Samsung S-Pen which is the same technology as the current generation Wacom EMR, so my Samsung Galaxy Book 3 Pro 360 and Note 10+ can use the same stylus as my Wacom One (and Amazon Kindle Scribe), and a Staedtler Noris Digital Stylus works on all of them.