Seriousness cannot afford Rosetta Stone, what do you suggest for language learning ? - Page 2

ardeegee · 06-30-2010, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kindlekitten

there hasn't been shooting in Japan, and if there is, we have a lot of other issues to worry about

Correct me if I'm wrong, but when you join the military, you have no guarantee of being allowed to do what you want to do-- just because you want to learn Japanese doesn't mean that they can't tell you that you are going to learn Pashto instead-- and be shipped off to downtown Kabul. When you sell yourself to the military, they tell you what you do, and where you go, and you have no option of saying "no." Or do I have the wrong impression, and the military is just a kind, gentle teddy bear who has your best interests at heart?

Anyway, back on topic, for anyone with an old PalmOS device lying around, there is a pretty decent Japanese dictionary application:

http://padict.sourceforge.net/v0.3.0/index.php

I used to keep it installed in mine, back when I was doing my ebook reading off of a Handspring Visor.

HarryT · 06-30-2010, 09:29 AM

I would suggest forgetting books, and looking at local classes in your area. Learning a language along with other people in a class is a LOT more fun - and effective - than trying to learn on your own from a book.

kindlekitten · 06-30-2010, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardeegee

Correct me if I'm wrong, but when you join the military, you have no guarantee of being allowed to do what you want to do-- just because you want to learn Japanese doesn't mean that they can't tell you that you are going to learn Pashto instead-- and be shipped off to downtown Kabul. When you sell yourself to the military, they tell you what you do, and where you go, and you have no option of saying "no." Or do I have the wrong impression, and the military is just a kind, gentle teddy bear who has your best interests at heart?

Anyway, back on topic, for anyone with an old PalmOS device lying around, there is a pretty decent Japanese dictionary application:

http://padict.sourceforge.net/v0.3.0/index.php

I used to keep it installed in mine, back when I was doing my ebook reading off of a Handspring Visor.

nope, you're wrong. very wrong. unless you enlist for a guaranteed assignment which is pretty rare, you have a guaranteed job. when you are going through the enlistment process you take a battery of tests which identify your strengths and weaknesses in a variety of areas. some skill sets require a minnimum score. when you look at your scores, the MOS's (military occupational specialty) job descriptions, then start working on your decisions. there is also a comparison to civilian jobs so you know what type of employment is available to you when you get out. all job specialties have a certain amount of college credit equivalency and you are advised as to how many college credits your training is equivalent to. the military is not going to offer something like language training (which tends to be a minnimum of a year) to someone who can barely pass the test. they also are not going to put someone into a highly technical skill such as IT if their interests lay in truck driving. the military spends a LOT of money on training and they do not want an unhappy or unsuitable soldier in a skill set

Joebill · 06-30-2010, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

I would suggest forgetting books, and looking at local classes in your area. Learning a language along with other people in a class is a LOT more fun - and effective - than trying to learn on your own from a book.

Nearest class would be about 75 miles one way. The local community colleges and the branch campuses of 4 year universities don't offer languages. With my work schedule, driving up there wouldn't work for me, no time to study.

Good idea otherwise.

Joebill · 06-30-2010, 09:10 PM

I took a pre-electronic qualification test and got the eletronics schooling I wanted in the US Navy. But when I went in, that was rare. They didn't need many electronics techs, now they probably have more jobs that require some electronics/digital training. But then... I maintained vacuum tube/valve radar and radio gear. My high school final was a low C. But I scored well on that pre-qual test and on the basic battery tests in boot camp. Many of the guys in the same boot camp company I was in barely passed the math and general knowledge tests, and didn't get the skilled jobs and schools they wanted.

My present computer skills are an in progress thing of over 25 years. Most recent job required me to take the 2009 version of A+. i didn't get to study much, but I made 90% on the 220-701 test and 87 percent on the 220-702 test. One of the other IT guys questioned my reasons for studying. Shrug. I felt I needed to, and then the tests were on things I skimmed over. Urf.

kindlekitten · 06-30-2010, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joebill

I took a pre-electronic qualification test and got the eletronics schooling I wanted in the US Navy. But when I went in, that was rare. They didn't need many electronics techs, now they probably have more jobs that require some electronics/digital training. But then... I maintained vacuum tube/valve radar and radio gear. My high school final was a low C. But I scored well on that pre-qual test and on the basic battery tests in boot camp. Many of the guys in the same boot camp company I was in barely passed the math and general knowledge tests, and didn't get the skilled jobs and schools they wanted.

My present computer skills are an in progress thing of over 25 years. Most recent job required me to take the 2009 version of A+. i didn't get to study much, but I made 90% on the 220-701 test and 87 percent on the 220-702 test. One of the other IT guys questioned my reasons for studying. Shrug. I felt I needed to, and then the tests were on things I skimmed over. Urf.

one of my biggest regrets is turning down language school. proof that 18 y.o.'s still need some hand holding

flutterbyee · 07-02-2010, 06:07 AM

using an ipod and itunes, i've gotten some very good podcast series for several languages. also useful for me, my library CD/language section.

Joebill · 07-02-2010, 07:03 PM

Ah, here is he box set I have now. 'Instant Immersion Japanese Levels 1, 2, and 3'.

The box has a comparison of this set and Rosetta Stone.

Ah ! It has a mp3 and ipod lesson disc.

I'll try your suggestions and this one. I recently bought a Sana Clip+ mp3 player.

Oh, this one costs $49.95.

BenG · 07-07-2010, 06:59 AM

I haven't tried this but it looks interesting.
http://www.livemocha.com/

Mr. Dalliard · 07-07-2010, 09:38 AM

Just buy some books and teach yourself. Watch Japanese movies.
It worked for me.

Why the urge to learn anyway? After 11 years here myself, I'm starting to get a little tired of the place.

Joebill · 07-07-2010, 06:22 PM

I watch Ghost in the Shell. I have all of the anime episodes and the movies. I try to watch the old black and white Japanese language movies on one of the satellite channels. But I don't think I get that one anymore, I had to cut back on my bill.

From several web sites, I know some parts of the GitS movies were altered, and a few scenes taken out, before it was released ion the U.S.

I would say that is why I want to learn the language. Several people have told me I am missing it because I cannot follow the original.

Joebill · 07-07-2010, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Dalliard

Just buy some books and teach yourself. Watch Japanese movies.
It worked for me.

Why the urge to learn anyway? After 11 years here myself, I'm starting to get a little tired of the place.

Well, I don't travel. I did when I was younger, mostly Europe/Mediterranean Sea area when I was in the US Navy, but I only visit relatives now.

Mr. Dalliard · 07-07-2010, 10:47 PM

Another thing you could do is take a look at the JLPT Japanese Language Proficiency Test (日本語能力試験) choose a suitable level and use that as the basis for your study.
Keep watching those movies, though - the important thing is to create an environment where you have frequent exposure to the language.

Thanks to the internet there are now millions of free language resources available to you.

がんばれ！

Toweruser · 07-09-2010, 01:51 AM

I have been learning English for two years now, so my experiences may be of some use to you.
I would like to say firstly that I haven't had any English in school.
That's a pretty bad starting situation but it didn't keep me from doing it anyway.

After trying a couple of learning programmes I felt this hasn't been the right
way to become familiar with the language. Sticking to an inflexible plan for a
long time didn't keep me motivated. :-)

Therefore I simply confined my activities in that matter to things I really like
(and doing some grammar stuff every now and again, I admit).

Activities like reading books and newspaper, watching TV and films and listening to podcasts which I did in German previously I am doing in English now.

And at last I found a language partner on Skype who is as interested in learning German as I am in English.
We meet on a regular basis twice a week or sometimes more often and for she
is a language teacher by profession I get really good advice.

From my point of view the three most important things are:

- immerse yourself as much as possible into the language you want to learn
- work everyday on your skills; regularity is crucial
- do it for the fun if it

Cheers
Michael

LCF · 07-09-2010, 03:24 AM

Just as an additional learning activity - you could watch Japanese movies to get a feeling of the language melody.

07-02-2010, 07:03 PM	#23
Joebill Fanatic Posts: 517 Karma: 459442 Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Alpha Centauri's Library of Alexandria Device: Pandigital Novel	Ah, here is he box set I have now. 'Instant Immersion Japanese Levels 1, 2, and 3'. The box has a comparison of this set and Rosetta Stone. Ah ! It has a mp3 and ipod lesson disc. I'll try your suggestions and this one. I recently bought a Sana Clip+ mp3 player. Oh, this one costs $49.95. Last edited by Joebill; 07-02-2010 at 07:04 PM. Reason: typo

07-09-2010, 01:51 AM	#29
Toweruser Junior Member Posts: 3 Karma: 10 Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Germany Device: PRS 300	I have been learning English for two years now, so my experiences may be of some use to you. I would like to say firstly that I haven't had any English in school. That's a pretty bad starting situation but it didn't keep me from doing it anyway. After trying a couple of learning programmes I felt this hasn't been the right way to become familiar with the language. Sticking to an inflexible plan for a long time didn't keep me motivated. :-) Therefore I simply confined my activities in that matter to things I really like (and doing some grammar stuff every now and again, I admit). Activities like reading books and newspaper, watching TV and films and listening to podcasts which I did in German previously I am doing in English now. And at last I found a language partner on Skype who is as interested in learning German as I am in English. We meet on a regular basis twice a week or sometimes more often and for she is a language teacher by profession I get really good advice. From my point of view the three most important things are: - immerse yourself as much as possible into the language you want to learn - work everyday on your skills; regularity is crucial - do it for the fun if it Cheers Michael Last edited by Toweruser; 07-09-2010 at 01:58 AM. Reason: Typo

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06-30-2010, 09:29 AM	#17
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,544 Karma: 93383043 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	I would suggest forgetting books, and looking at local classes in your area. Learning a language along with other people in a class is a LOT more fun - and effective - than trying to learn on your own from a book.

06-30-2010, 09:10 PM	#20
Joebill Fanatic Posts: 517 Karma: 459442 Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Alpha Centauri's Library of Alexandria Device: Pandigital Novel	I took a pre-electronic qualification test and got the eletronics schooling I wanted in the US Navy. But when I went in, that was rare. They didn't need many electronics techs, now they probably have more jobs that require some electronics/digital training. But then... I maintained vacuum tube/valve radar and radio gear. My high school final was a low C. But I scored well on that pre-qual test and on the basic battery tests in boot camp. Many of the guys in the same boot camp company I was in barely passed the math and general knowledge tests, and didn't get the skilled jobs and schools they wanted. My present computer skills are an in progress thing of over 25 years. Most recent job required me to take the 2009 version of A+. i didn't get to study much, but I made 90% on the 220-701 test and 87 percent on the 220-702 test. One of the other IT guys questioned my reasons for studying. Shrug. I felt I needed to, and then the tests were on things I skimmed over. Urf.

07-02-2010, 06:07 AM	#22
flutterbyee Junior Member Posts: 2 Karma: 10 Join Date: Jun 2010 Device: palm zire 71	using an ipod and itunes, i've gotten some very good podcast series for several languages. also useful for me, my library CD/language section.

07-07-2010, 06:59 AM	#24
BenG Home Guard Posts: 4,730 Karma: 86721650 Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Alpha Ralpha Boulevard Device: Kindle Oasis 3G, iPhone 6	I haven't tried this but it looks interesting. http://www.livemocha.com/

07-07-2010, 09:38 AM	#25
Mr. Dalliard Zealot Posts: 143 Karma: 35 Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Osaka, Japan Device: Kindle 3	Just buy some books and teach yourself. Watch Japanese movies. It worked for me. Why the urge to learn anyway? After 11 years here myself, I'm starting to get a little tired of the place.

07-07-2010, 06:22 PM	#26
Joebill Fanatic Posts: 517 Karma: 459442 Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Alpha Centauri's Library of Alexandria Device: Pandigital Novel	I watch Ghost in the Shell. I have all of the anime episodes and the movies. I try to watch the old black and white Japanese language movies on one of the satellite channels. But I don't think I get that one anymore, I had to cut back on my bill. From several web sites, I know some parts of the GitS movies were altered, and a few scenes taken out, before it was released ion the U.S. I would say that is why I want to learn the language. Several people have told me I am missing it because I cannot follow the original.

07-07-2010, 10:47 PM	#28
Mr. Dalliard Zealot Posts: 143 Karma: 35 Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Osaka, Japan Device: Kindle 3	Another thing you could do is take a look at the JLPT Japanese Language Proficiency Test (日本語能力試験) choose a suitable level and use that as the basis for your study. Keep watching those movies, though - the important thing is to create an environment where you have frequent exposure to the language. Thanks to the internet there are now millions of free language resources available to you. がんばれ！

07-09-2010, 03:24 AM	#30
LCF Wizard Posts: 1,472 Karma: 9795311 Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Germany Device: Hanlin V3 (LBook), GS3	Just as an additional learning activity - you could watch Japanese movies to get a feeling of the language melody.

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