06-15-2010, 03:37 AM | #16 | |
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Personally, I respect people who make solid arguments (even when I disagree). Those who people-bash appear to lack enough reasoning to overcome their emotions. With these sorts of threads, they come out of the woodwork. |
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06-15-2010, 03:52 AM | #17 | |
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As others have said, its not the hardware which is a problem, my macbook pro is a wonderful platform for linux. But their attitude to customers, technology, software design, employees, just about anything important really, is evil genius style stuff. |
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06-15-2010, 04:44 AM | #18 | |
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But on the other hand. of course, these days the only freedom Apple stands for is the freedom of the users' chains. Well, as long as the users are happy, they have the choice before they decide to buy. Last edited by HansTWN; 06-15-2010 at 04:49 AM. |
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06-15-2010, 04:54 AM | #19 | |
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Show me the contrary evidence that says that nobody committed suicide at the Foxconn factory. Show me the contrary evidence that shows the 10+ hour shifts didn't occur. Show me the unions that protect the workers from the bosses. Show me the company that isn't moving its operations to Taiwan and Vietnam now because of all the bad press. Another vile corporate apologist willing to brush over death and the destruction of people in the name of profit. You make me sick to the stomach. Oh and don't call me boy, you patronising shit. |
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06-15-2010, 05:07 AM | #20 | |
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If we really want to be concerned about the conditions of workers in China, we should stop buying probably about 80% of consumer electronics right now. Anything else is hypocrisy at the worst, and sensationalism as a best case scenario. |
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06-15-2010, 05:16 AM | #21 | |
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The main mistake Foxconn made was the very large "suicide bonus" that proved too enticing for workers who wanted to help the people back home. Those are the really poor ones, the ones that don't work at a factory like Foxconn, but work at a local invested one. Of course, you are seeing it like it is. The whole matter won't help Chinese workers, all that will come of it is that many of them will lose their jobs and the poor farmers will have fewer opportunities to improve their lots. By the way, workers in Taiwan electronics factories make over 1000 USD per month, a move there would definitely not be for the lower cost. My point being, China's workers lot has improved so much in the last 20 years, if you really want to help the workers it must be at a sustainable pace. A giant jump in costs will just force the factories to close and move elsewhere. That would be the greatest loss for the workers. |
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06-15-2010, 05:19 AM | #22 | |
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06-15-2010, 05:19 AM | #23 | |
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And with the boy I just returned the favor from a few months back. I felt it appropriate since you talk about something you really have no idea about to someone who has seen it first hand. |
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06-15-2010, 05:26 AM | #24 | |
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06-15-2010, 05:27 AM | #25 |
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06-15-2010, 05:29 AM | #26 |
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06-15-2010, 05:30 AM | #27 |
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06-15-2010, 05:31 AM | #28 |
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I highly recommend Wall Street Journal reporter Leslie Chang's book, "Factory Girls." She offers more than a drive-by take on Chinese factory workers. She also recently wrote a commentary piece in The New York Times, concluding:
"It is important not to interpret the recent spate of worker suicides as protests against factory conditions. In my experience, the greatest pressure on workers comes from interpersonal and emotional concerns rather than conditions inside the factory, which workers tend to take for granted. The universe of the factory can be a complicated place. Young people living away from home for the first time are learning to deal with co-workers, roommates, and bosses. They are adjusting to a world of material and sexual freedom, fleeting relationships and crushing loneliness. They face demands from families back home who often have little understanding of their new lives. These factors create a stressful environment from which, for a handful of workers, suicide seems the only escape. To boil this desperate act down to a protest against working conditions is to deny a worker’s complexity and humanity." All that Chang wrote jibes with what I've read and heard over the years about labor in Chinese factories. Adding link to book: http://www.amazon.com/Factory-Girls-.../dp/0385520174 Last edited by Maggie Leung; 06-15-2010 at 05:43 AM. |
06-15-2010, 05:41 AM | #29 |
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Exactly, Maggie. These workers come from their homes 100s or even 1000s of miles away to work. Often they are alone and don't know anybody. People in factories tend to group together by home province. If someone does not belong to one of these groups it can be a very lonely place. It represents great opportunities for them, but life isn't easy for many reasons other than the factory environment. Such sensational "journalism" just paints a completely inaccurate picture and, in the end, hurts the workers.
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06-15-2010, 05:46 AM | #30 |
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I didn't read Ulysses, and I didn't see the comic. I also don't know the machine behind the iTunes Store and the ratings and approval stuff etc.
But isn't it basically okay to prevent minors from viewing nudity? I'm not prude, I like looking at naked people (women, preferrably), but lately it has struck me as rather bold to see boobs and asses all over the place. I turn on the TV (here, in Europe) and between shower-gel commercials featuring naked women in waterfalls I see tabloid-style TV shows where the only topics are celebrities, plastic surgery and what party island to go to to get all the sex you want. Then when I go outside I see billboards on buildings (i.o.w. HUGE!) advertising "art" and "culture" with paintings such as this one, this one, or this one. I used to basically ignore this kind of public display of nudity, but having become a dad 2 years ago obviously did something funny with my brain and I look at things with different eyes. Why is it okay to print huge, gigantic pictures of absurdly deformed naked bodies that are considered art (I consider it just totally disgusting, looking at Schiele's paintings makes me want to hurl)? Just because the guy is famous? Weren't paintings such as these the Hustler/Penthouse mags of the 1800s or whenever the guy lived? Hey, how about Mapplethorpe? I'd really like to see his self-fisting photos (all aesthetically very pleasing, oooh, the lighting is just so amazing, how it accentuates the rawness of the male body) on display in front of the local museum when I take a stroll along that route with my son. There's that. Then again, anyone who's willing to enter a museum that displays stuff like that, or buys a book about Mapplethorpe (the photos are amazing), they should be able to do that without jumping through hoops to get them, or peel off censorship-stickers. Just let the porno-Ulysses get a rating of 18+ in the app store and tha's it. Who's 18? Maybe anyone who has a creditcard. |
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