Funny I don't feel like a criminal

[guyanonymous]

Originally Posted by kennyc

No, worse. I'm a Libertarian!

And here I thought that with all this reading and copyright obsession, you were a Librarian! hehe

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by llreader

.....
No offense Ken, but no one seems to be able to figure out exactly what you want the world to be like.
......

I know and I try to state it so clearly too. You might think others just don't want to understand.

BTW, it's KENNY.

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by guyanonymous

And here I thought that with all this reading and copyright obsession, you were a Librarian! hehe

That deserves Krama!

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by TGS

...

As much as kennyc will not like this, it is simply indeterminate at this point whether X is to count as theft. ...

Embrace the indeterminacy I say

Amazingly I agree. The laws have not caught up with the new reality.

I prefer to say it as Heisenberg did -- "Embrace the uncertainty" -- it is impossible to know both the law and the morality at the same time, or have you every seen superman and clark kent together?

[ardeegee]

Originally Posted by kennyc

No, worse. I'm a Libertarian!

Saw an excellent definition of that recently:

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2...sm_defined.php

[TGS]

Originally Posted by ardeegee

Saw an excellent definition of that recently:

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2...sm_defined.php

You get some karma for that ardeegee

[Harmon]

Originally Posted by HansTWN

So using a "false" ebook -- a copy not created by somebody legally authorized is also fraud? I was just using the above example as a case from the physical world where the event organizers' damage is exactly the same as when an ebook is copied (except for fair use). Because some always make the argument "the copy rights' holders still have their copy, so I didn't do anything wrong". If you believe that, you must also believe that you haven't harmed anyone by going to the concert for free.

The argument that is being made is not "the copy rights' holders still have their copy, so I didn't do anything wrong". It is "the copy rights' holders still have their copy, so making a copy isn't theft."

But you raise an interesting analogy, "book" as "performance." It shifts the attention from the object to the author. If you consider the author as a performer rather than a creator, the "book" becomes a "ticket."

But the argument breaks down when you consider that in the performance world, the customer has to buy a new ticket for each performance. The interesting thing, though, is that in terms of a subscription service for ebooks, that is what would occur. So if publishers moved to a subscription model for their ebooks, what you suggest would certainly have some logical force.

[Harmon]

Originally Posted by kennyc

That's sure a funny thing to believe. Property = Theft.

Hmm. A inexplicable gap in your knowledge. It's a socialist political slogan, originated by an anarchist, P. J. Proudhon:

http://news.infoshop.org/article.php?story=2010proudhon

And it's the title of an anthology of his books which is available, in part, electronically:

http://anarchism.pageabode.com/pjpro...perty-is-theft

AND if you run "P. J. Proudhon " in Inkmesh you'll find some of his books for free.

[Ben Thornton]

Why doesn't Marx drink proper tea? Because proper tea is theft.

Sorry.

Back OT, I think that the morality around appropriate behaviour with ebooks, for most people, is based on what you could have done with the equivalent pbook. So most of us, I suspect, think that giving your ebook to someone else and deleting the copy that you use (your library/ebook copy or whatever) is OK.

Morality is likely to shift over time on this - as it does on all issues. Indeed, it seems to be shifting already, in that my impression is that people are becoming less bothered about whether they are "supposed" to have digital content. I'm not sure if this impression is created by a genuine shift in attitude, though, or simply more opportunity to obtain content via the internet.

[ardeegee]

One topic I haven't seen covered yet on fake electronic books is construction quality-- with real electronic books, you can be assured that all the electrons really are electrons. With fake electronic book, you run the risk of some of the electrons actually being positrons, which could result in damage to your electronic devices and your own health.

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by ardeegee

One topic I haven't seen covered yet on fake electronic books is construction quality-- with real electronic books, you can be assured that all the electrons really are electrons. With fake electronic book, you run the risk of some of the electrons actually being positrons, which could result in damage to your electronic devices and your own health.

Sue the bastards!

[guyanonymous]

Silly guys, that's why you wrap your usb cables in tinfoil, to realign and transformationalize the positrons back into electrons and make sure they're going the right way. The worst, though, is when you use imported tinfoil, as sometimes your books are translated into a foreign language.

[Gladtobemom]

So far, I've avoided DRM books because of this. I have been thoroughly enjoying spending my money on non-DRM books from Baen and enjoying out of copyright books.

I have grown boys that read and a husband that reads, I'm the one that bought them their ereaders and they all love them.

We've always shared books, whenever the boys come over, they bring books and pick some up. Same for magazines and journals.

I ONLY buy books from people that say I can share books with my family.

[guyanonymous]

But think of the [s]publishers[/s] authors!

[TGS]

Originally Posted by Harmon

But you raise an interesting analogy, "book" as "performance." It shifts the attention from the object to the author. If you consider the author as a performer rather than a creator, the "book" becomes a "ticket."

I'm not saying this just to wind up kennyc with my hifalutin literary theory nonsense, I'm really not... but there is a school of literary theory that holds
that it is the reader who "performs" the literary work, the writer merely provides guidelines for that performance. On an analogy with music, the book is analogous to the score, but the reader is analogous to both the orchestra and the audience.

Maybe the buggers ought to start paying us for performing their works and giving them life