Discussions with Amazon CS about PW Defects

[Katsunami]

Originally Posted by sparklemotion

I'm very confused by this as well.

No need to be. No two screens are exactly the same. It is just like that. It's the reason why photographers and other people in the graphics industry go to great pains to calibrate and profile screens, and even buy very expensive stuff to do it (and expensive screens that take well to calibration). Read below....

Originally Posted by xtine

Edit: I checked the photos I uploaded earlier and compared them to the 603 in my hand -- blotches are still there after all. The good news is, maybe I've already gotten used to them? Or trained my brain to ignore them?

This certainly is the case. You *will* get used to it.

As I said in this thread earlier, I take many pictures, and a lot of my time is spent in front of color calibrated and profiled LCD-screens. Color calibration and profiling is done using a special device and some software. This proces makes screens show the correct colors. I've even calibrated the screens I use at my workplace.

Therefore, I am used to seeing true white on LCD screens. If I look to a screen of one of my colleagues, I can *immediately* tell if the screen is off. Most are too reddish, blueish, greenish, or yellowish. On some screens, their white actually looks light red, or light blue to me.

The fun thing is: the person working with that particular screen day in day out says I am stupid and that his whites are perfectly white, not red or blue. And to him, all screens in the office are fine. His eyes are not trained to recognize perfect white, as are mine, and therefore he is unable to pick up color casts.

Until.... he does not look at the screen for some time, and I put my screen right next to his. Then that person will immediately see that his screen is off color.

So yes, you can and will get used to a color cast, eventually, assuming that you do *not* have perfect material to compare with on a regular basis. So, if you have one perfect Paperwhite, and one with blotches, or two with different color casts, and you use them interchangeably, you will not get used to the discoloration.

====

Maybe I'm just in luck, but as posted earlier, my PW is perfect with regard to lighting evenness, but it does have a color cast. When used at my preferred light setting 13 in this room, the screen is a bit grayish with a tinge of a blue-green cast. See this picture.

http://members.home.nl/katsunami/mis...n/_0012041.JPG

Photoshop agrees with my assesment, as the eyedropper says:

R: 135 G: 154 B: 163

The paper is (almost) perfectly light gray under these lighting conditions:

R: 169 G: 160 B: 163

So... grayish (all values are quite comparable, and far from 255/255/255 white), but with a green-blueish cast. And when you compare it to the almost perfectly gray paper, you can easily see the color cast. Whe you do not have a real white on screen for comparison, then the paper will after some time look like a dull white, and the kindle will also start to look lighter. It's just the way your eyes work. They fool you. Easily.

The trick is: I don't have another paperwhite to compare with. When reading for some time, the screen is just a dull white. The moment I put it next to "Google", displayed on my perfectly calibrated computer screen, or beside a sheet of high quality photo paper, then it's definately grayish with a blue-green tinge.

When bringing up the level to 17-18 or so, the screen will turn bright white, but then it's too bright to comfortably read in here. Then it's going to start to look like an LCD.

[Yolina]

Originally Posted by sparklemotion

And Andrew did tell me they are aware of the color hues. If they thought it was normal, I really don't know why they wouldn't just say that is normal behavior, we can only offer you a refund if you're not happy as they will all have that. He has never said that it's normal behavior, in fact he said it wasn't.

I just find it really surprising that no-one at Amazon noticed the blotches until people started sending their units back. We're now months after launch and the screens still have issues.

You are supposed to receive another one today, aren't you?

[sparklemotion]

Originally Posted by Yolina

I just find it really surprising that no-one at Amazon noticed the blotches until people started sending their units back. We're now months after launch and the screens still have issues.

You are supposed to receive another one today, aren't you?

Yes, I'm expecting one today due to the glowing specks on my latest one. This one will be from a newer batch, it's a 602 3G. My previous one is a 502 3G.

I'm really surprised and confused by all of this too. It's hard for me to understand why if they see the problem, they can't fix it, and if they can't fix it, why not just say that the color hues are inherent to the PW design and that it will be on all of them and offer a refund to people that aren't satisfied?

By continuing to send them, they must truly believe the next one will be better. Surely they must, otherwise they are just wasting their time and money. And Andrew has told me that the color hues are not normal, so I assume they don't think they are. It's all very confusing really. I will say they do seem to have improved the PW, so that's something.

[Yolina]

Originally Posted by sparklemotion

I'm really surprised and confused by all of this too. It's hard for me to understand why if they see the problem, they can't fix it, and if they can't fix it, why not just say that the color hues are inherent to the PW design and that it will be on all of them and offer a refund to people that aren't satisfied?

Because I guess then they'd be officially acknowledging that they've released a product with a flawed screen, which is after all the most important part of an e-reader, and since there are a lot of people out there who can't see the blotches (lucky them!) they probably don't want to do that.

[Katsunami]

Originally Posted by sparklemotion

As we were talking about privately, mine became worse as well. Very strange. When I first received it, it looked great, now it's more pink.

Here's a pic of my current PW on the left (the one I'm happy with but it has those glowing specks and the color hues are very faint in person) next to my older one. You can see the older one in darker and more muddy. It's much more pronounced in person compared to the pic. In person the screen on older one is very pink and darker. Both lights are at 24.

I'm sorry to contradict, but both your Kindles are fine.

I have put your picture into Photoshop and picked some colors. The left Kindle is next to perfect. Everywhere I pick the color, the picker gives values like this:

R: 199, G: 205, B: 203

This is an almost perfect, very light gray.

It varies a bit, but on most places, all three colors are within a 195-205 span. In the bottom, it jumps to around 210-215, so it's a bit brighter there, which is obvious because the LED's are there.

The right Kindle is the same, but it's a bit duller. The values that are picked are between 185 and 195 for R, G and B, so there is no noticable color cast. It could be that this Kindle is indeed a bit duller / less bright than the left one, but still it does not have a color cast.

With regard to color casts, your eyes are deceiving you, and sending these devices back will gain you absolutely nothing, except maybe a worse Kindle. I am sorry to state this so pointedly, but both of these Kindles are near perfect. This is not a subjective statement. Photoshop color picking outcomes support it as a fact.

edit: I cannot test for "specks" using pictures, but with regard to evenness and color casts, both Kindles are fine. If you have a photo editor (Photoshop, Elements, Paint Shop Pro) then load the picture into it, and you can actually check this yourself.

[sparklemotion]

Originally Posted by Yolina

Because I guess then they'd be officially acknowledging that they've released a product with a flawed screen, which is after all the most important part of an e-reader, and since there are a lot of people out there who can't see the blotches (lucky them!) they probably don't want to do that.

That's my thinking too, although they'd be better off saying what Harry said which is that the color hues are inherent to the PW design and not a defect. I guess I'll see what the newest PW today brings. If it's worse than my current one I'll just keep the one I have now. It's definitely the best one I have had so far as the color hues are very faint and the screen is overall very even. Did you decide if you're keeping yours?

[sparklemotion]

Originally Posted by Katsunami

I'm sorry to contradict, but both your Kindles are fine.

I have put your picture into Photoshop and picked some colors. The left Kindle is next to perfect. Everywhere I pick the color, the picker gives values like this:

R: 199, G: 205, B: 203

This is an almost perfect, very light gray.

It varies a bit, but on most places, all three colors are within a 195-205 span. In the bottom, it jumps to around 210-215, so it's a bit brighter there, which is obvious because the LED's are there.

The right Kindle is the same, but it's a bit duller. The values that are picked are between 185 and 195. IT could be that this Kindle is indeed a bit duller than the left one, if you took only one picture. If you took two pictures, it could be due to different light metering of the camera.

Your eyes are deceiving you, and sending these devices back will gain you nothing. I am sorry to state this so pointedly, but both of these Kindles are NEAR PERFECT. Photoshop color picking makes this not a subjective statement: the numbers are fact.

Thank you for your thoughts, Katsunami. Just to be clear, I was perfectly happy keeping my latest PW. I then noticed it has some glowing specks and when Andrew (from Kindle CS) called me and asked me my thoughts I told him about the glowing specks.

He then asked for a photo of them and then called me back and said they'd like to send me another one. I accepted figuring I don't have anything to lose. I could get a screen that is just as good as my current one without the glowing specks. So that's what has happened in my case. I will agree the PW on the left is pretty good. The one on the right, in person, it's very pink (with blue also) to my eyes.

Also, it's one photograph of them both next to each other. The PW on the right, the light is much dimmer than my current PW on the left. The one on the right has a very muddy look in person compared to the one of the left is much whiter and more even.

[BeccaPrice]

Except that some of us have much better screens than others. I have a very, very faint pink blush in the lower right corner, maybe the size of a dime. Blossom also seems to have a good screen. So it is possible.

[Yolina]

Originally Posted by sparklemotion

That's my thinking too, although they'd be better off saying what Harry said which is that the color hues are inherent to the PW design and not a defect.

I agree that this would be by far the most sensible option!

Did you decide if you're keeping yours?

Still completely on the fence about it - I don't hate it but I'm not thinking it's the best thing ever either. What I'm trying to work out really is whether it's giving me enough for the £109 I paid for it given than on the whole I'm still happy with my K3. And of course, the big compromise if I keep the PW is the ridiculously small amount of on-board storage.

[sparklemotion]

Originally Posted by Yolina

Still completely on the fence about it - I don't hate it but I'm not thinking it's the best thing ever either. What I'm trying to work out really is whether it's giving me enough for the £109 I paid for it given than on the whole I'm still happy with my K3. And of course, the big compromise if I keep the PW is the ridiculously small amount of on-board storage.

Good luck with your decision. After you use it for awhile hopefully the choice will become more obvious for you. With my earlier PWs (which looked really bad) I considered returning them and just using my touch. I have a really good screen on my touch, I just don't like reading with a light attached. I really much prefer the built in light on the PW.

[Blossom]

Originally Posted by BeccaPrice

Except that some of us have much better screens than others. I have a very, very faint pink blush in the lower right corner, maybe the size of a dime. Blossom also seems to have a good screen. So it is possible.

Absolutely! I finally got my Sony working so here's my pics with a good camera.

The first one is at setting 24. Please ignore the orange spot by the chapter title. It's my camera light. I have no idea how to turn it off.

The second is setting 11 which I read at in my living room. This one uses flash. As you can see there is no discoloration in either of them. Make sure to click three times on the pics to see the original size.

[Yolina]

Your screen is indeed very nice Blossom

[wyvern]

I agree that this screen is much nicer, clear without distracting splodges. The right hand screen in Sparklemotion's picture looks pinkish but - worse, in my opinion - it is uneven lit and splodgy looking and dim. Not a nice reading experience.
My interest is that I'm seriously considering buying a PW. I thought about getting a Touch 2nd hand on ebay which wouldn't have these screen issues, but the prices being paid are ridiculous - higher than a basic Kindle new on Amazon.
I've also heard a lot of stories about PW screens permanently freezing with black lines across and when I went to see them in John Lewis before Christmas and was very tempted because they'd just had a batch in, I was put off again because JL had dropped their 2 year warranty (still in place on other makes and tablets) - when I asked why, 2 sales assistants said it was "because the screens are so unreliable".

[sparklemotion]

Originally Posted by wyvern

The right hand screen in Sparklemotion's picture looks pinkish but - worse, in my opinion - it is uneven lit and splodgy looking and dim. Not a nice reading experience.

It's even worse in person too. Very pink and uneven.

[Katsunami]

In the European Union, a two year warranty by the seller is obligatory, so it can't be just dropped.

Or has the UK some other arrangement again, as they often have?