Amazon uses DMCA to restrict where you can buy e-books

[RobbieClarken]

Originally Posted by wallcraft

It does seem that the iPhone version set this all off, and it may be that the problem is that millions of iPhone owners can now buy Kindle Store ebooks and with the PID from KindlePID these can be converted to DRM-free MOBIs using mobidedrm. KindlePID does not remove the DRM, but without KindlePID mobidedrm can't do its job (since, unlike with MobiPocket software, there is never a need for the reader to know the PID). Secret keys can be part of a DRM scheme (and the impossibility of keeping them secret is one reason why DRM does not work), so perhaps Amazon has a point.

I also think that Amazon's decision is to try and stop people stripping DRM from Kindle books. My suspicion is that Amazon is able to convince publishers to release ebooks by arguing that their DRM stops people sharing the books. The existence of KindlePID and MobiDeDRM endanger this. I don't think that Amazon is trying to stop people buying books from other sources but it would be nice if they were more open about their reasons.

[lilac_jive]

Originally Posted by Nate the great

I did.

Excellent.

[Boston]

Originally Posted by epiphany

I also think that Amazon's decision is to try and stop people stripping DRM from Kindle books. My suspicion is that Amazon is able to convince publishers to release ebooks by arguing that their DRM stops people sharing the books. The existence of KindlePID and MobiDeDRM endanger this. I don't think that Amazon is trying to stop people buying books from other sources but it would be nice if they were more open about their reasons.

They need to open the Kindle to read other DRM'd formats. Then I suspect many others would jump on the Kindle bandwagon increasing sales of not only Kindles, but also Kindle books. This should satisfy both publishers and customers (and probably reduce the desire to break DRM for legitimate purposes).

I hope Amazon is reading this

[AnemicOak]

Originally Posted by Boston

They need to open the Kindle to read other DRM'd formats. Then I suspect many others would jump on the Kindle bandwagon increasing sales of not only Kindles, but also Kindle books. This should satisfy both publishers and customers (and probably reduce the desire to break DRM for legitimate purposes).

I hope Amazon is reading this

Yep, if they keep Kindle books priced the way they are now then opening it up to say ePub and Mobipocket certainly wouldn't hurt their sales and would encourage people that already own books in those formats to jump on board.

[Donnageddon]

Well, I have been a half-n-half person when it comes to the advantages-disadvantages of the Kindle and the Sony Reader, but this really does tip the scales quite a bit.

It is an offensive attitude from Amazon. I hope Sony enjoys a big jump in sales, and is smart enough to realise it is precisely because the Sony Reader is a more open device that they are making better market penetration.

The fact that I can upload any document I want on to my Sony (including ePub!) without unnecessary format restrictions is a big plus.

It will be interesting to see how Sony applies wi-fi to it's next generation. I know I am going to be much more careful what I load on my Kindle...

[whitearrow]

Originally Posted by tompe

Well, as I argued in the thread referenced I still think that kindlefix is a cirumvention of DRM but I really have no idea if this is a legally problematic or legally allowed circumvention.

But even if Kindlefix is a circumvention of DRM the company that would have a legitimate beef is the company that the eBook was purchased from -- BooksonBoard or whoever, or the publisher. Not Amazon, it isn't their DRM being circumvented. It doesn't touch any file that was purchased from Amazon. Amazon has no more business in what's in that file than they do my work documents I converted from .doc or .rtf.

[Boston]

Originally Posted by whitearrow

But even if Kindlefix is a circumvention of DRM the company that would have a legitimate beef is the company that the eBook was purchased from -- BooksonBoard or whoever, or the publisher. Not Amazon, it isn't their DRM being circumvented. It doesn't touch any file that was purchased from Amazon. Amazon has no more business in what's in that file than they do my work documents I converted from .doc or .rtf.

If I read this right, their direct target was at KindlePID, not kindlefix, which is another reason (in addition to timing) why I think this is targeted more towards their ability to control distribution through the iTunes store than Kindle owners.

[pilotbob]

Someone talked about the razor/blades anaology and said the Kindle should be $10 it would be owned by everyone. Heck, even at $199 I think that might be the case.

The other think you all have to remember is that Amazon owns Mobipocket and licenses it's DRM scheme to Overdrive. I would not be surprised it they told Overdrive that they must not accept the Kindle/iPhone PIDs if they want to continue using the mobipocket encryption format.

Is Adobe actually the one smelling like roses here.. or even eReader/Fictionwise/Barnes & Nobel?

What if amazon decides that mobipocket software shouldn't work with library ebooks?

BOb

[shelleyp]

Originally Posted by Boston

If I read this right, their direct target was at KindlePID, not kindlefix, which is another reason (in addition to timing) why I think this is targeted more towards their ability to control distribution through the iTunes store than Kindle owners.

That is not our, Kindle owners, problem.

If Amazon is going to be paranoid about the iPhone app, then they should pull it. Or get out of the eReader business and stick with selling eBooks.

Either that, or the company is going to be looking at a class action lawsuit brought about by Kindle owners. Nobody tells me what I can and can NOT do with a device I spent a not-so-small chunk of money on.

Oh, and that keeping Whispernet on all the time, like the company recommends? Not on your life after this event.

[NatCh]

Originally Posted by catsittingstill

? I thought the program in question made it possible to put DRMed Mobipocket books on Kindle? Not to use Kindle books on anything else?

That's very close, but slightly off. What kindlePID.py does is generate a PID that can be used to purchase DRM'd mobipocket files that are encrypted for the device in question. To actually get the Kindle to read the file, KindleFix.py (which doesn't seem to bother Amazon) is necessary to "flip the switch" on the file (more or less toggling a bit, if I understand correctly) so that the Kindle will read it -- without that switch flipping, the Kindle won't even try to read a file.

Originally Posted by catsittingstill

So I don't see how they could be worried about people buying Kindle books and reading them on non-Kindles.

With its recent release, the Kindle iPhone app became the main tool for doing that little thing.

Originally Posted by catsittingstill

Maybe I'm just confused...

I suspect that someone is confused, but I don't think it's you.

[ollave]

Originally Posted by jj2me

As a new Sony PRS-505 owner, I was coming to the conclusion that the Kindle 2 was a better device and recommending it. It offers enough additional valuable features (not even including Whispernet and the Amazon bookstore), and Calibre now supports mobi. The Sony only had a few things still going for it: size, ADE support, metal construction, card slots, price.

This changes everything.

And, um, Sony has a better record? (RIAA anyone?)

*grump*

[Faenad]

Originally Posted by ollave

And, um, Sony has a better record? (RIAA anyone?)

*grump*

In the ebook reader business, I guess so.
In some of their other business they have quite a bad reputation.

ie there is no evil company. There is only evil monopoly. Amazon already has a dominant position on the market and they will try to improve it, even at the cost of alienating some of their customers.

[NatCh]

Originally Posted by Faenad

In the ebook reader business, I guess so.

Not just in the e-book reader business, in the e-book business too -- Sony hasn't ever cut customers off from downloading books they'd already payed for. Of course, this is Sony's first foray into the e-book realm, to Amazon's second ... so I suppose that Sony does still have the option of ending their first pass the same way that Amazon did theirs, but Amazon has already exercised that option.

[dragonbone]

Originally Posted by Moejoe

Imagine if it was $10 and they released it worldwide at the same time instead of all this messing about with whispernet in only one country and exclusive deals here and there? I'd bet you a penny to a shiny new dollar that you'd have mass-adoption in a couple of weeks, and the sales of ebooks would go through the roof. Sometimes these companies baffle me, it's like they don't want to make money.

My sentiments exactly! This isn't some little Micky Mouse, back-of-the-woods Mom&Pop store here. Why, oh WHY did they have to do it this way?
As a lover of beautiful coffee table books, an avid reader, student, cook (who loves gorgeous recipe books) AND an ex-pat( who can't easily buy books locally); I have spent vast sums of money at Amazon.com (and have shelves and shelves of books from Amazon). However for the last 5 months I have not bought a SINGLE book from Amazon. Once I realized, that it was not just a delay, but that that they had no intention of opening their ebook store to their loyal international customers.... well....

Anyway they are not the only kid on the block.

[iterati]

It appears that many lack the knowledge of the current business model. No one is shooting their foot or anything similar. Amazon or Sony or any other companies are not non-profit organizations, their directive isn’t to bring you new technology or innovation, isn’t to enlighten the masses either, it’s to make money and use all means for that purpose. Anyway, who doesn’t want to make more? If you sell something you don’t want to price it higher too? No? You don’t want to force the consumer to buy more from you? I can’t understand why there are people that state surprised because of such tactics.

It’s true that kindle comes with built-in GPS module?

Sony wasn’t the one that distributed CDs loaded with trojans (not condoms, the other kind)?

There isn’t a matter of trust between companies and consumers, such notion is invalid. What we really want is thinking consumers and freely available information (see internet). Well, at least if we like to avoid true capitalism, where they’d measure the power of votes according to wealth of the voter (not that the democracy of today is different by far; politicians need sponsorship).