02-28-2018, 04:42 AM | #136 |
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That crossed my mind too. But I still think Irene pushed her
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02-28-2018, 07:26 AM | #137 |
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Yes, I do too, orlok.
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02-28-2018, 10:29 AM | #138 | |||
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What's unimportant to this story is what then happens to Irene. As the story stands, she's become a murderer, and whether she's caught and punished is irrelevant--this is not a mystery or a police/legal procedural. Are there any other instances of Irene feeling guilt? My view of Irene has hardened, so perhaps I've overlooked them. My recollection is that Irene convinces herself her actions are always for the best and doesn't worry overmuch about their effects on others. She sure doesn't feel guilty about making her husband miserable. If she doesn't feel guilty about things she's done, would she feel guilty about something she didn't do, only wished for? |
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02-28-2018, 11:28 AM | #139 | |
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Without knowing more of the backstory of Brian's and Irene's relationship, when and why and how positions hardened, it's impossible to know who's responsible and to what extent for their issues. It seems as if the game must have changed materially since they married. And yes, Brian is staying put, but there seems to be a sizable dollop of passive aggression there. Has there been any attempt on either part to find some common ground? And what is the root cause of the sexless marriage? Did one or the other instigate it or is it something they fell into with their increasing resentment toward the other? I'm not saying Irene is the least bit selfless as she clearly isn't, but it seems as if Brian wants what he wants, too. Perhaps Irene wouldn't be so fearful and prone to strike out if she didn't feel so insecure. |
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02-28-2018, 07:29 PM | #140 | ||
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(Don't forget that it is your interpretation that there was an intent to push, not mine. I just see Irene rushing to Clare and placing her hand on Clare's arm. I think Clare's backward step is unrelated to Irene's intentions.) Quote:
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02-28-2018, 08:05 PM | #141 | ||
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And have you ever come up with a benign explanation for Irene's hand on Clare's arm? Quote:
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02-28-2018, 09:46 PM | #142 | |
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It makes you wonder whether Brian stuck around after the end of the book, or if the events shocked him into leaving Irene and doing what he had wanted to do for so long. In which case, whether Irene had brought about Clare's death or not, it would all have been for nothing. |
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02-28-2018, 10:52 PM | #143 | |
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Indeed. I was only hoping to convince you that I wasn't crazy (for interpreting the book as I did) ... but I never have much luck with that. Last edited by gmw; 02-28-2018 at 10:55 PM. |
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02-28-2018, 11:11 PM | #144 | |
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Unlike you, Clare wasn't still breathing afterward. Seems like that might be an important distinction. |
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03-01-2018, 03:32 AM | #145 | |
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Nor was I surprised that moments later Clare was dead, nor that Irene held herself responsible when (under my interpretation) she was not. It seemed to me at the time that Larsen had presaged much of this (or maybe it's just that there weren't enough pages for anything else). I was not certain Clare was going to die, but it wasn't a surprise, and I didn't think Irene was responsible, in spite of her subsequent behaviour and thoughts (or partly because of it - since it left out any plain statement of fact, and this seemed to be a deliberate flag from Larsen saying "don't believe where this points!"). That was my reaction first time through. On reflection and re-read I saw that it may not read have to that way, so then I checked Wikipedia and saw: "Whether she has fallen accidentally, was pushed by either Irene or Bellew, or committed suicide, is unclear." I checked one of their reference pages and found "Clare mysteriously falls to her death through an open window". So I figured my interpretation was not totally unexpected. (If I had not found such confirmation of ambiguity I may not have had the confidence to promote my interpretation so strenuously here ... I'd have just slunk into the corner and pretended it was a temporary aberration .) |
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03-01-2018, 06:15 AM | #146 |
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I do think we're getting a bit mired down in the "did she/didn't she" ending. What I have taken away from this book is the difficult life that "white" people of colour had back then (and possibly still do) in integrating with either the white community (living a lie) or their own community (not always being accepted as one of their own). I think this informs Irene's and particularly Clare's neuroses and outlook on life, and explains many of their actions.
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03-01-2018, 07:02 AM | #147 | |
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And did Brian really want to go to Brazil, or was it just a handy grievance, since he knew Irene would never agree? |
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03-01-2018, 07:07 AM | #148 |
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orlok, did you read the Penguin edition with all the extra notes? I'm curious because I didn't and I would have said that you have "taken away from this book" more than was actually present in it*. As far as the story of Passing is concerned the part-Negroes appear to be living very comfortable and trouble-free lives (at least the ones we meet). Only Clare shows dissatisfaction related to race, and is something we only see at one remove. If it wasn't for a complete #$#$% of a husband, and the whole standing too close to open windows thing, Clare could easily (it seems) have satisfied her desire for more contact with other Negroes.
* This isn't any sort of criticism. There is nothing wrong or even unusual about taking away more than was put in, it is often the case that a book inspires further thought or reading beyond what it directly contains. |
03-01-2018, 07:18 AM | #149 | |
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I come back to my impression of similarities between Brian and Mr Bennet (of Pride and Prejudice). Both are men that are impressed with their own cleverness; both are men content to humour their wives rather than deal with them on a serious level; and both are men not entirely satisfied with their lot but too comfortable to ever try and do anything about it. |
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03-01-2018, 08:46 AM | #150 | |
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This is where I keep going back to my notes about how gender and the inter-personal relationships between women (especially women fighting over men) seemed almost a bigger them to me than race. I also have a hypersensitivity to media that pits women against each other of late. I have started and dropped 3 TV shows on netflix in the last month because the thrust of the plot is women fighting with one another when they should just be banding together against the problem/conflict. |
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