Apple lays off employees working on Books and News

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by John F

Maybe? Did the collusion force ebook stores that discounted to close? Is that "what the market took care of"?

For example, looks at the timelines of fictionwise and the Apple/publishers collusion:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fictionwise
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United...v._Apple_(2012)

The collusion did cause the eBook stores that discounted to close as they could no longer discount and there business models were no longer viable.

B&N's purchase of Fictionwise was not the reason they closed. B&N bought Fictionwise for the DRM they now use on nook books.

[theducks]

Collusion is hard to prove unless they were really incompetent.
Do I need to talk to a competitor, or can I simply look at their product in the marketplace? It is called comparison shopping and decide which way I want to go. Happened all the time in the 70's when there were gas stations on multiple corners. x was 35 cents, y was 36 cents and z matched x (yes, those were common prices then)

[DNSB]

When multiple gas stations from different companies kilometres apart raise their prices within a minute of each other, it does make you wonder just a titch about the possibility of collusion.

[theducks]

Originally Posted by DNSB

When multiple gas stations from different companies kilometres apart raise their prices within a minute of each other, it does make you wonder just a titch about the possibility of collusion.

We banned Company Stations over a decade ago. In Cal. it was Standard Oil (the co) and Chevron (ind, selling SO products), because of that instant price change.
I can't remember what brands you have in BC

[DNSB]

Hmmm... Esso, Petro-Can, Chevron, Shell, Costco, Safeway, Mobil, Husky & Super Save that I can remember off the top of my head. We had Arco for a while years back but they ran into the lack of brand loyalty—What? You want me to pay 2 cents more per litre for your brand name? Thanks but no thanks.

[DiapDealer]

From my (limited) experience working with owners/managers of gas stations, it's more a matter of everyone in town monitoring the current "biggest fish in the barrel." A game of copycat-ism in an age where you can find these things out instantly.

I drive through several different medium-sized scopes of influence during the week and can see 10-15 cent differences.

[jackm8]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

When Apple got involved, they wanted to take down Amazon and got the major publishers involved.

You're awfully naive if you think that's the case. The deal today is digital corporations working amongst themselves to keep their prime monopole businesses going without any interference. Apple did a token ebook project, so Amazon didn't look as dominant as it is.

Similar cases exist with Microsoft toying around in mobile OS market. Adobe being given total monopoly and no competition by MS and Apple, in return it's forcing their software to the newest OS'es from those companies, and not competing in areas where they are active. Something must also exist between Apple and Microsoft, seeing how they completely stopped competing in hardware, gaming, and streaming.

[johnnyb]

Sad to perhaps not see any more improvements on the Books app. I don't use it often on my iPad Mini, but do sometimes for books with lots of photos/pictures which I don't want cluttering my Kindle, and they had that awesome Intro to biology from the E.O. Wilson foundation...

The app has really improved with the last major update, does not shove their store and recommendations in your face like the Kindle does (at least the eink ereaders), I prefer their collection system over Kindle (it's definitely easier to organize on a Mac), and most of all, their page settings are much more refined compared to the Kindle.

They should have built an ereader like they did with the iPod, since digital long form reading is still mostly done on eink (for the simple fact that you cannot get people to charge their ‘books’ on a daily basis I assume).
But they have their phone I guess...

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by johnnyb

...digital long form reading is still mostly done on eink (for the simple fact that you cannot get people to charge their ‘books’ on a daily basis I assume...

I don't believe that is so, though I wish it were.

[leebase]

I'm not surprised. Apple lost interest in Books the moment they lost the lawsuit. All of which was caused by Amazon's hostile actions against the publishers. Apple was the tool the publishers used to bring Amazon to heal. At least, that was the plan.

The verdict cemented Amazon's near monopoly.

I actually like the Book app, but buy all my ebooks from Amazon and thus use the Kindle app or if I liberate the book, I use FBReader.

As an Apple fanboy, the inability to liberate Apple books kept me from buying them

[John F]

Originally Posted by leebase

I'm not surprised. Apple lost interest in Books the moment they lost the lawsuit. All of which was caused by Amazon's hostile actions against the publishers. Apple was the tool the publishers used to bring Amazon to heal. At least, that was the plan.

The verdict cemented Amazon's near monopoly.

I actually like the Book app, but buy all my ebooks from Amazon and thus use the Kindle app or if I liberate the book, I use FBReader.

As an Apple fanboy, the inability to liberate Apple books kept me from buying them

Yes. How dare that big meanie Amazon discount NYT best sellers.

[leebase]

Originally Posted by John F

Yes. How dare that big meanie Amazon discount NYT best sellers.

How dare your retail outlet turn your most profitable products for their most profitable period into a loss leader to sell their expensive gadget.

Training your most profitable customers that the value of your product is not the $30 you worked so hard to establish, but $9.99 as well as remove the ability to make a profit for the rest of your retailers

Can’t imagine why the publishers objected.

[John F]

Originally Posted by leebase

How dare your retail outlet turn your most profitable products for their most profitable period into a loss leader to sell their expensive gadget.

Training your most profitable customers that the value of your product is not the $30 you worked so hard to establish, but $9.99 as well as remove the ability to make a profit for the rest of your retailers

Can’t imagine why the publishers objected.

Gotcha. So if wholesalers don't like the way retailers behave, just go ahead and criminally/civily collude. Let's get rid of all those laws and let the companies decide what's best.

[leebase]

Originally Posted by John F

Gotcha. So if wholesalers don't like the way retailers behave, just go ahead and criminally/civily collude. Let's get rid of all those laws and let the companies decide what's best.

I think the law is fine and that the publishers should have just pulled their books from Amazon. Of course, they would have needed courage to do so individually.

They waited way too long until Amazon already had so much power.

It was only Apple that could possibly change the dynamic. But the publishers and Apple lost.

And Amazon got what they wanted. They subsidized their pricey gadget and ran the competiton out of business long enough for it to no longer matter when the publishers got pricing power.

By that time, the Kindle was able to be sold as the loss leader and Amazon could just take its cut of the publisher's setting the price.

All the Independant stores lost the ability to compete on price. All the competing devices except the Kobo are gone.

But at least we can be happy Apple lost

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by jackm8

You're awfully naive if you think that's the case. The deal today is digital corporations working amongst themselves to keep their prime monopole businesses going without any interference. Apple did a token ebook project, so Amazon didn't look as dominant as it is.

Similar cases exist with Microsoft toying around in mobile OS market. Adobe being given total monopoly and no competition by MS and Apple, in return it's forcing their software to the newest OS'es from those companies, and not competing in areas where they are active. Something must also exist between Apple and Microsoft, seeing how they completely stopped competing in hardware, gaming, and streaming.

Today is not then. Then is when it happened. Apple rallied the publishers to try to take down Amazon.