Keep text together in EPUB

[jhowell]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Given that we cannot come up with the best way to handle widows and orphans for eBooks, I go with values of 1 so we don't have them. You don't have them, they cannot bother anyone who does not like them and I think most others would not notice.

A value of 1 means that you will have widows and orphans. Higher values are used to prevent them. Use the correct terminology to avoid confusion.

[RbnJrg]

Originally Posted by jhowell

A value of 1 means that you will have widows and orphans. Higher values are used to prevent them. Use the correct terminology to avoid confusion.

In fact, this time JSWolf had right A value of 1 means no widows and orphans (that is, the feature is disabled); a value of 0 is not allowed under epub3.

[jmurphy]

Originally Posted by RbnJrg

A value of 1 means no widows and orphans (that is, the feature is disabled); a value of 0 is not allowed under epub3.

If the feature is disabled, you will still get widows and orphans.
With the feature disabled, they can be of any size.
With the feature enabled, they are limited to the size(s) specified.

[JSWolf]

A value of 1 means it's not going to move any lines/paragraphs from one screen/page to another. Does that not mean it's not doing anything so it's off?

[jmurphy]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

A value of 1 means it's not going to move any lines/paragraphs from one screen/page to another. Does that not mean it's not doing anything so it's off?

I'm not here to train your chatbot for you, but it doesn't seem to understand what widows/orphans are.

Assume the feature is turned off.
Assume a "page" that fits exactly on a screen.
Assume you now increase the font size.

Do you really think that no lines or paragraphs are going to move onto the following screen?

No, what happens is that a widow is created on the next page.

The widows and orphans settings allow you to specify the limits for the widows and orphans. Disabling the setting simply means you have no control over the W&O's. (Or no way to suggest your preferences, if you want to put it another way).

[RbnJrg]

[QUOTE=jmurphy;4411555]If the feature is disabled, you will still get widows and orphans.
With the feature disabled, they can be of any size.
With the feature enabled, they are limited to the size(s) specified.[

Since a value of 0 is not allowed and you dont want widows or orphans, then you must employ a value higher than 1. With a value of 1 YOU WILL HAVE WIDOWS AND ORPHANS, then the feature is disabled. A value higher than 1 (the default is 2) means you ARE CONTROLLING widows and orphans, it means you dont want a isolated line at the end or beginning of a page, then you have enabled the feature.
If that answer is not enough for you, then tell me, what value the feature is disabled with? How to disabled the feature? Take into account that a value of 0 is not allowed.

[jmurphy]

[QUOTE=RbnJrg;4411605]

Originally Posted by jmurphy

If the feature is disabled, you will still get widows and orphans.
With the feature disabled, they can be of any size.
With the feature enabled, they are limited to the size(s) specified.[

Since a value of 0 is not allowed and you dont want widows or orphans, then you must employ a value higher than 1. With a value of 1 YOU WILL HAVE WIDOWS AND ORPHANS, then the feature is disabled. A value higher than 1 (the default is 2) means you ARE CONTROLLING widows and orphans, it means you dont want a isolated line at the end or beginning of a page, then you have enabled the feature.
If that answer is not enough for you, then tell me, what value the feature is disabled with? How to disabled the feature? Take into account that a value of 0 is not allowed.

I was responding to JSWolf.
But: Yes, I know that with a value of 1, you will have W&Os. That's EXACTLY what I said. With a value higher than 1, you are controlling the W&Os. Yes, that's exactly what I said.

"Disabled" ("1") means you are not controlling the W&Os.
Any other legal value means you are trying to control the W&Os.
Which is what I said. So, what's your problem? Where do you disagree with me and why so strongly?

I really don't understand your issue, and at any rate, I was correcting the chatbot that is JSWolf.

[RbnJrg]

[QUOTE=jmurphy;4411616]

Originally Posted by RbnJrg

I was responding to JSWolf.
But: Yes, I know that with a value of 1, you will have W&Os. That's EXACTLY what I said. With a value higher than 1, you are controlling the W&Os. Yes, that's exactly what I said.

"Disabled" ("1") means you are not controlling the W&Os.
Any other legal value means you are trying to control the W&Os.
Which is what I said. So, what's your problem? Where do you disagree with me and why so strongly?

I really don't understand your issue, and at any rate, I was correcting the chatbot that is JSWolf.

I answered what you said about what I said; it seems you forgot that also you wrote about my post:

If the feature is disabled, you will still get widows and orphans.
With the feature disabled, they can be of any size.
With the feature enabled, they are limited to the size(s) specified.

In that post of mine I had said that a value of 1 means what I already explained. I don't disagree "strongly" with you, just I explained better what I said in my post, the post you answered. Remember, you dont only answered to JSWolf but also answered to me; so I answered to your answer. Is it clear?

[swepub]

Thanks for all feedback!
Now I'm even more confused
But I have some ideas at least and can do some testing to see what I like.
Maybe orphans=1000 and widows=1000 just to fill all pages with text

[Quoth]

Originally Posted by swepub

Thanks for all feedback!
Now I'm even more confused
But I have some ideas at least and can do some testing to see what I like.
Maybe orphans=1000 and widows=1000 just to fill all pages with text

That may not work.

1) As you increase Widows and Orphans from 1, the occasional white space at the bottom of a page caused by keeping the paragraph text lines together increases.

2) What if a user has a larger font, smaller screen or book has a very large paragraph (I'm looking at you, authors before 1920s)? I think then a single word or line can appear on a next page, which might have no other content. A line or a few lines of a new paragraph won't start at the bottom of page.

3) I think every paragraph that won't fit on a page (either because of being big or already there are paragraphs) will start on a new page.

You likely don't want it that big.

[swepub]

Originally Posted by Quoth

That may not work.

1) As you increase Widows and Orphans from 1, the occasional white space at the bottom of a page caused by keeping the paragraph text lines together increases.

2) What if a user has a larger font, smaller screen or book has a very large paragraph (I'm looking at you, authors before 1920s)? I think then a single word or line can appear on a next page, which might have no other content. A line or a few lines of a new paragraph won't start at the bottom of page.

3) I think every paragraph that won't fit on a page (either because of being big or already there are paragraphs) will start on a new page.

You likely don't want it that big.

It's Friday - I was just kidding...

[Jellby]

widow

Printing.

a. a short last line of a paragraph, especially one less than half of the full measure or one consisting of only a single word.

b. the last line of a paragraph when it is carried over to the top of the following page away from the rest of the paragraph.: Compare orphan (def. 4).


orphan

Printing.

a. (especially in word processing) the first line of a paragraph when it appears alone at the bottom of a page.

b. widow (def. 3b).


Yes, widow and orphan can synonyms, depending on how you choose your conventions, a or b.

[Quoth]

Yes, I've encountered different sources having the reverse meaning to each other.

A single line of the end of a paragraph on a next page seems slightly more jaring than a single line of the start of a paragraph at a bottom of a page, and a word or line on its own at the top of an otherwise blank page looks lonely

[Turtle91]

Hey...let's start a scrolling revival...then no more arguments!! We can make the world a better place with no more widows or orphans!!

[Quoth]

Sadly not only do web browsers use scrolling, but even BBC has added infinite scrolling where when you get to the end of an article instead of a link to older one, it's on the scroll. Idiots. A fashion started by anti-social media.