Two-pages image (facing pages) / How to?

[Quoth]

Also another thought, unless you have fixed layout, splitting an image across tw0 pages even when a reading app or ereader can display two pages at once doesn't work because if the font is increased or decreased when the two pages & images are side by side the reflow will mean the pair of images are split between opposite sides of a virtual leaf.

Fixed layout epub is horrible. If you need fixed layout then make a PDF. But a reflowable epub is better and simply don't split an image into two halves, or else combine them if the paper has them as separate images (but likely they started as a single image. If only some landscape images need to fill the device screen they can be edited in advance to 90° rotation and fill screen in portrait mode via width: auto and height: 100%, then the text can be read in portrait mode.

Many but not all apps and ereader allow landscape display, but if the original intended for paper is mostly 2 page spreads, then assume person reads in landscape and combine each pair of source images as single landscape images with width: 95% (or 100%) and height: auto. If the app or ereader doesn't do landscape, or the user doesn't know how to do that, then the images are smaller. You can remind readers at the start to select landscape display and rotate the device. Some apps and ereaders will automatically rotate the content.

[42piratas]

if the original intended for paper is mostly 2 page spreads, then assume person reads in landscape and combine each pair of source images as single landscape images with width: 95% (or 100%) and height: auto.

Even when I'm using apple's Books in landscape mode, even with each image with width:100% height:auto margin:0, it still displays a gap between the images, but this doesn't happen with other books I have.

[Tex2002ans]

Originally Posted by 42piratas

I'm creating a picture book/epub with Sigil. There are a few images that are placed across two facing pages. How can I achieve that?

What you want is called a Fixed Layout (FXL) ebook.

These are extremely hard to produce (and not well supported).

They have to also be custom-made per device per store.

(FXL ebooks for Amazon isn't compatible with Kobo isn't compatible with Apple iBooks.)

If you want more information on advantages/disadvantages, I highly recommend checking out the fantastic article at:

• Booknook.biz: "Kid's Books"

Creating these types of books is typically very hard for a self-published person to try to do on their own.

- - -

Note: Booknook is one of the very few companies officially approved by Amazon.

Hitch is an extremely helpful user here—that's her conversion company.

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Originally Posted by 42piratas

Should I cut the image in the middle and add each to a different HTML file? And if so, what are the CSS-related best practices to keep them together/well-aligned?

You want to hand this type of children's book over to a professional.

If you really want to do it on your own, then you can read all about "two-page spreads" in the actual specs:

• Amazon's "Kindle Publishing Guidelines" (PDF)
• Apple's "Book Assets Guide"
• Kobo's "Kobo EPUB Guidelines"
• EPUB3's "Fixed Layout Documents"

In EPUB3, you are looking for:

• rendition:spread
• page-spread-*

but like I said, this will most likely bring pain and misery. These types of "multi-page spreads" + FXL aren't well supported in the broader ebook ecosystem.

- - -

Side Note: If you want even more information on FXL books, I wrote a few in-depth responses earlier this year:

• /r/selfpublish: "PDF or Quark Layout to ePub?"
• /r/selfpublish: "Learning how to convert my picture book for Kobo and Kindle (indd, Mobi, ePub and Fixed Format advice WELCOMED!)"

95% of the time, FXL is the completely wrong tool for the job too. (People actually want a normal, reflowable EPUB.)

In the very rare 5% of the time, which it looks like yours is, you may want an FXL ebook.

But these types of books are:

• Very expensive to produce.
• Get low sales.
• Are a pain to read.
  
  • Constantly pinch/zooming, can't change fonts, can't read on e-ink or small phones, etc.
• Very likely to break (and need updating) in the future.
  
  • See the fantastic ebookcraft 2019 talk, "Building Ebooks That Last", where an editor from Houghton Mifflin explained the pain of FXL books + warned strongly against them.

(Personally, I don't touch FXL ebooks with a ten-foot pole.)

And there's no way to JUST limit sales to "tablets" or "PCs" or "big devices", so you'll get a lot of angry customers rating/reviewing poorly too...

Usually it's best to keep these types of picture books as Print-only.

Originally Posted by jhowell

Amazon supports something similar to allow double page spreads in comics. (Creating Fixed-Layout Books with Image Pop-Ups or Virtual Panels)

Yep. In the Amazon Kindle Publishing Guidelines (2019.2), you'll want to look at chapters:

• 11 Creating Fixed-Layout Books with Text Pop-Ups
  
  • 11.6.1 Using Side-by-Side Images When Orientation-Lock Is Set to Landscape
    
• 13 Creating Fixed-Layout Books Without Pop-Ups

which describe+show examples.

[Little.Egret]

'And there's no way to JUST limit sales to "tablets" or "PCs" or "big devices", ...'

In fact the Kindle store does allow this.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by Little.Egret

'And there's no way to JUST limit sales to "tablets" or "PCs" or "big devices", ...'

In fact the Kindle store does allow this.

ACTUALLY, to be very clear about this;

IF you use the DIY Amazon apps that exist today, and even some of the deprecated apps, Amazon limits it--not you. You don't get to take any eBook you make and designate it for tablets, PCs, "big devices" or the like. The idea, in fact, is limiting and denying, not enabling your choices. Amazon does not empower you to choose that--they take that away from you.

You use Kindle Create and make a textbook or fixed-layout eBook? Fine, then it's limited to Kindle Fires and tablets. You lose access to ~50% of the Amazon marketplace (and let's not kid ourselves--you are cutting off the single biggest $$$ source out there. Apple, Kobo, etc. don't remotely compare, even all combined.) You use the deprecated Kindle Kids' Book Creator (which, by the way, will absolutely NOT display "one page up" when a spread book is rotated), and it's limited to Fires, pretyt much and sometimes, the "K4..." readers, too.

Ditto the old Textbook Creator and all that.

But it's not your choice. it's Amazon's choice. They took dozens, or even scores, of hand-made fixed-layout kids' books that we'd made, NOT using their apps, mind you, back in 2010-2014, and they changed them so that they could NOT be bought on eInks, even though ours did work on eInks, because the KC-cum-KKBC-cum-etc. DIY apps' versions do not.

Oh and let's not forget--you can't upload a fixed-layout ePUB to make a fixed-layout Kindle eBook, EITHER. That doesn't work, unless you've painstakingly written all the ePUB coding by hand, to work in the Amazon ecosystem. 99.99% of all eBook publishers have no idea how to do that and don't. (And as I said, if you're not playing in Amazon's sandbox...well.)

MOST readers have nothing in common, performance/functionality-wise, with the App Formerly Known as iBooks (Books Reader, the stupidest bloody name ever).

The Kindles certainly do not. About 90-something percent of fixed-layout coded ePUB3s, that work on Apple's platform, WILL work on Kobo, but that's about it.

You try to upload those FXL ePUBs at Ingram, D2D, etc. and it's ALWAYS a nightmare (they don't have distinct FXL intake processes and insist on running them through their "garbage-eater" APIs and "fixing" them to be reflowable!!!) and don't get me started about bloody PublishDrive that had the unmitigated GALL to tell one of my clients to 'fix" his Fixed-layout (poetry plus photography) eBook using Calibre. Trust me, they got the back of my tongue.

I received rather profuse and lengthy apologies from them about it, but it didn't compensate me for the bloody DAYS I spent, telling the customer what to tell them. Jackasses.

Quoth knows whereof he speaks. You would do well to pay attention.

Hitch

[Quoth]

Hitch could take your content and make it a regular reflowable epub2 for upload to Amazon and almost everywhere else. It will then work in some fashion on everything and a two page spread source image can be a single image to nearly fit a screen in landscape device mode if supported, though images will be a bit small on a 4.3" phone or 5" eink in portrait.
Many apps can do landscape and some really old kindles do rotation automatically. Some apps and eink devices only do portrait.
Download the 87p Beatrix Potter and compare it on phone, eink and tablet.
Google Playstore has some free Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle comics which sort of work in Google Play books on a 6.8" eink, but of course are better on a 10" tablet.

Smashwords (now part of D2D) redistribute to Apple, Barnes & Noble, Kobo, Tolino, Scribd etc. Via reflowable epub, or poorer quality from MS Doc.
Amazon KDP works best with reflowable epub upload.
Google Playstore Books works best with reflowable epub.

With 3 uploads using reflowable epub2 you access phones, Fire, Tablets, apps, eInk; almost 100% of the Market and probably every eink based ereader in the last 12 years (some older that that are still going and most of those can work with epub or Mobi via epub2 uploaded to Amazon KDP).

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by Quoth

Hitch could take your content and make it a regular reflowable epub2 for upload to Amazon and almost everywhere else. It will then work in some fashion on everything and a two page spread source image can be a single image to nearly fit a screen in landscape device mode if supported, though images will be a bit small on a 4.3" phone or 5" eink in portrait.

Yes, but this particular poster would not get what s/he wants. That's an important consideration. What we think of it--you and I and the other old pros--doesn't really matter. Not...not really.

What matters is what the publisher wants; if they end up learning a harder lesson, say, at Amazon with a KQN or the like, that's...that's different. It's not really our job, either here on MR or in my shop, to say "you CAN'T do that." I try to explain...but I don't hold interventions when they decide to go FXL. Just so you know. :-)

ヾ(≧∇≦)ゞ

I'm feeling rather raw and fraught on this topic at the mo; I have a pair of lady clients, who did a kids' book that they wanted for Halloween (sigh) and we did it reflowable, AFTER considerable discussion and guess what? They're not happy. I can't make them happy, without making it FXL and even then, they won't be happy. Their last "counter offer" was, "well, make it so the 4-line couplets can't break across pages and we'll be okay with it," which, wait for it, we can't do. Not in any "right" coding way. (sigh).

Many apps can do landscape and some really old kindles do rotation automatically. Some apps and eink devices only do portrait.

Okay, I'll bite. What older Kindles rotated like that, for a two-pane/panel/column view???? I realize I'm getting senile, but I honestly don't recall that before...hmmmm, what the first Fire?

Download the 87p Beatrix Potter and compare it on phone, eink and tablet.
Google Playstore has some free Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle comics which sort of work in Google Play books on a 6.8" eink, but of course are better on a 10" tablet.

I do think that that's a good idea.

Smashwords (now part of D2D) redistribute to Apple, Barnes & Noble, Kobo, Tolino, Scribd etc. Via reflowable epub, or poorer quality from MS Doc.
Amazon KDP works best with reflowable epub upload.
Google Playstore Books works best with reflowable epub.

I do feel I should note that SW and some of the other distributors do NOT have DRM, if you are wanting DRM for your ebook file. 'Nuff said, don't want to get into some DRM discussion, but it's worth knowing if you're the publisher.

With 3 uploads using reflowable epub2 you access phones, Fire, Tablets, apps, eInk; almost 100% of the Market and probably every eink based ereader in the last 12 years (some older that that are still going and most of those can work with epub or Mobi via epub2 uploaded to Amazon KDP).

Yes, but again--it's not what s/he wants. They want a book that will appear in spreads. They don't really seem to care about the percentage of the market--that over 50%--that won't download it, or see it, or be able to see it that way. NOR, for that matter, those that like me, don't care to read in landscape, which I do not. {shrug}. That's their choice. Every publishing decision is a choice. Every branching on that path routes the book differently, changes this or that, this marketplace, etc. It is, to be fair, their choice to make.

Hitch

[Tex2002ans]

Originally Posted by Hitch

IF you use the DIY Amazon apps that exist today, and even some of the deprecated apps, Amazon limits it--not you. [...]

Thanks for all that info on Kindle Create, Kindle Kid's Book Creator, Apple/Kobo FXL EPUB3s, etc.

You're pretty much the only one I know that KNOWS the ins-and-outs + deals with all that FXL stuff... and then actually spreads nuggets of knowledge about it over the years.

(Everything else is like pulling teeth... + complete Amazon marketing lies/quarter-truths.)

Originally Posted by Hitch

MOST readers have nothing in common, performance/functionality-wise, with the App Formerly Known as iBooks (Books Reader, the stupidest bloody name ever).

Yep, and that's the thing too:

• Different ratios.

A two-page spread (or even image's layout in a book)... may not fit well inside the single-screen device.

It's like trying to squish a 7″×10″ (or 14″×20″) page into a 6″ screen—it just won't work! (Not to mention the horrible pinch/zooming we keep on mentioning.)—the two-page spread's text would just be... microscopic!

You may have to go back to the source document and tweak the size/placement of images/text to get a better visual in your FXL ebook.

Each one of these changes has to be tweaked/decided on... per page/device/store/book basis.

These FXL ebooks then need to be tested on the devices themselves, and, again, this is where professional knowledge comes into play.

A professional would preemptively make you aware of these issues and/or fix them before they become a larger problem. (Very bad user reviews, returned books, Kindle Quality Notices [KQNs].)

- - -

Side Note: I wrote a lot about "professional knowledge" in:

• 2022: /r/selfpublish: "Anybody have experience with the website formattedbooks?"

In the case of ebooks, a professional may:

• know lots of bugs/quirks of different devices.

If you're trying to do X (poetry/lyrics for example), they may code it in a way where it works better across all devices.

Or they may:

• know what ebook readers expect (choosing different fonts, font sizes, background colors, etc.)

... so they'll make sure to NOT break that.

Ebooks are also NOT just "the surface", the underlying HTML+code is just as important.

For example, Text-to-Speech is extremely important, and if:

• you do not use the correct characters (like accidentally using a MINUS SIGN instead of EM DASH)
• you do not mark the proper language (you say the book is "French" when it's actually "English")

... things may go very wrong!

(So many of these automated "one-click" tools create busted code. Those ebooks may "look okay on the surface", but once you begin poking at it and flipping switches, things break.)

- - -

Originally Posted by Hitch

What matters is what the publisher wants; if they end up learning a harder lesson, say, at Amazon with a KQN or the like, that's...that's different. It's not really our job, either here on MR or in my shop, to say "you CAN'T do that." I try to explain...but I don't hold interventions when they decide to go FXL. Just so you know. :-)

Good ol' Tex just says:

"FXL? Nah. Bad idea." (And then I promote Booknook.biz! )

Originally Posted by Hitch

It is, to be fair, their choice to make.

And they'll always get a strongly worded (few) paragraphs from me!

[Quoth]

Originally Posted by Hitch

Okay, I'll bite. What older Kindles rotated like that, for a two-pane/panel/column view???? I realize I'm getting senile, but I honestly don't recall that before...hmmmm, what the first Fire?

The Kindle DX and DXG autorotates but only for a PDF or reflowable regular mobi. The KK3 only has manual rotate though has azw3/KF8 and "Publisher" mode/font too.
BUT I've only ever seen a real two page spread in a PDF from a scanned book. Each pair of book pages is thus one image.
There is no two "logical" or virtual panes/ pages. Just one page per screen unless an illusion by PDF or a table (which breaks in reflowable ebooks, i.e. real ebooks).

IMO if it doesn't reflow to fit the screen of any shape, size, portrait or landscape it's not a real ebook, but a displayable document. If it's other than static images and text, like multimedia, then it's a multimedia or interactive application, not a real ebook, even if it conforms to a format/spec that can be used for real ebooks. Also if a PDF isn't the same when printed on paper, or is interactive (even just a form) it's a misuse of the format and also insecure.

More than ten years ago I thought an interactive ebook would be a good idea, but it was a lazy idea. A proper multimedia program or app, even using a framework is better. For portability, security and ease of use an ebook should only have content that works on paper, but a subset of formatting to suit any shape and size of screen from 2" square upwards. Only Interaction TOC and internal links to replace footnotes if absolutely needed. Even on paper footnotes distract on fiction and endnotes may be needed for citation, but unless researching they are ghastly on paper. I recently got Christopher Tolkien's edited collection of "Unfinished Tales" which is really a reference work rather than a collection of short stories. Section endnotes and I think footnotes would have been better for reading, but it makes sense if it's just a reference work.

[untracked]

You need to create a Fixed Layout Epub. Sigil is not good at all at creating those. Adobe InDesign and Jutoh are the ones that create them well as far as I know.