Classics Daniel Deronda by George Eliot - Page 7

Bookpossum · 07-02-2021, 11:35 PM

Having just done a post which has now disappeared because I was timed out, here goes again.

I am running behind my own timetable, but have finally arrived at Book 7. I found much of the section covering Books 4 to 6 was heavy going, especially the really earnest sections such as Mordecai’s club meeting.

Certainly for me, as for others, the Gwendolen storyline is much more gripping than that of Daniel. I thought the following in Chapter 35 summed up her horrible situation perfectly:

Quote:

Her confidence in herself and her destiny had turned to remorse and dread; she trusted neither herself nor her future.

I live in hope of Grandcourt coming to a sticky end, given our preparation for that with the mention of his will.

Bookpossum · 07-16-2021, 09:21 AM

Is there still anybody out there? I have recently finished, and wondered how many others have done so. Are we going to discuss the book, or have people moved on to other things?

Like others, I found Gwendolen far more interesting than Daniel. I couldn't like her, at least in the beginning, but her very flaws made her interesting, and her grim situation in being married to Grandcourt was something I wanted to see resolved for her.

Daniel seemed to be so handsome, good, kind, intelligent, caring, etc etc that he wasn't a real person at all. I understand why Eliot made him such a paragon, but for me he was rather boring. His mother, though we see only a little of her, was far more interesting.

I didn't think the book came anywhere near to Middlemarch, which was chock full of interesting characters.

pdurrant · 07-16-2021, 11:32 AM

It's now some time since I finished it.

I found Daniel's story more interesting than Gwendolyn's, although he himself is a ridiculous paragon, sacrificing his interests for those of his friends more than once.

I found Gwendolyn's actions and reactions to be incredible. I didn't believe in her at all.

All in all, I was not at all impressed. 2/5 for me.

poohbear_nc · 07-16-2021, 05:20 PM

My overall impression of the novel was that the plotting and characterizations were overly contrived or forced to make social statements/observations. The Jewish story line and the Gwendolyn story line did not ever mesh for me, and the Daniel/Gwendolyn relationship was just silly and unbelievable.

Bookpossum · 07-16-2021, 10:01 PM

pdurrant, I found Gwendolen believable enough, given the very limited options women had in those days. I'm only surprised that she didn't actually push Grandcourt overboard! But of course I am being facetious - he was exercising what these days we call coercive control and had her in fear of him.

What was hard to believe in, as poohbear says, was the supposed relationship between her and Daniel. He was a young man in his mid 20s or so as I recall, a few years older than Gwendolen to be sure, but he was advising her on how to live her life as if he was a wise elder in his 60s. I suppose he was such a paragon that he was wise beyond his years!

I suppose we can all feel virtuous for having read it anyway.

CRussel · 07-26-2021, 01:40 AM

It's not that he's a paragon, Bookpossum, it's just that he was an early proponent of "mansplaining'.

Bookpossum · 07-26-2021, 02:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CRussel

It's not that he's a paragon, Bookpossum, it's just that he was an early proponent of "mansplaining'.

Well, she did ask him for advice, so maybe not in this case!

fantasyfan · 08-03-2021, 12:45 PM

This is a case where I go along with F.R. Leavis. The Deronda section didn't work at all for me. I would agree with Bookpossum that Daniel is too good to be true and I personally find him too saintly to be likeable. Gwendolen is much more believable and I can honestly feel a compassion for her suffering at the end even as she accepts that her life must go on even if it is to be a lonely journey.

“You have been very good to me. I have deserved nothing. I will try—try to live. I shall think of you. What good have I been? Only harm. Don’t let me be harm to you. It shall be the better for me—”

She could not finish. It was not that she was sobbing, but that the intense effort with which she spoke made her too tremulous. The burden of that difficult rectitude toward him was a weight her frame tottered under.

She bent forward to kiss his cheek, and he kissed hers. Then they looked at each other for an instant with clasped hands, and he turned away.

When he was quite gone, her mother came in and found her sitting motionless.

“Gwendolen, dearest, you look very ill,” she said, bending over her and touching her cold hands.

“Yes, mamma. But don’t be afraid. I am going to live,” said Gwendolen, bursting out hysterically.

Her mother persuaded her to go to bed, and watched by her. Through the day and half the night she fell continually into fits of shrieking, but cried in the midst of them to her mother, “Don’t be afraid. I shall live. I mean to live.”

After all, she slept; and when she waked in the morning light, she looked up fixedly at her mother and said tenderly, “Ah, poor mamma! You have been sitting up with me. Don’t be unhappy. I shall live. I shall be better.”

I find that a deeply moving moment . . . . I have no such emotional response to anything in the Deronda part of the novel.

I notice that Diana Souhami has made an attempt to retell the story of Gwendolen Harleth in her novel Gwendolen: A Novel It is not an abridgement of Eliot, rather ". . . a bravura re-imagining of the life of one of English literature's most multi-faceted and contradictory heroines". (Comment from te Kindle edition}.

Rebecca Mead describes it thus:

In "Gwendolen" Souhami performs a bold feat of imagination: what would happen if George Eliot's final novel were retold from the perspective of its beautiful, complicated, circumscribed heroine? The result is intriguing and moving: a fictional recovery of the woman's interior experience that lies untold behind the man's journey to fulfillment, and a powerful meditation upon the nature of creativity. Both an arresting interpretation of George Eliot's work and a compelling fiction in its own right, "Gwendolen" will be whispering in my ear next time I go back to "Daniel Deronda"

The ebook is quite inexpensive and I intend to give it a try. It does reinforce my feeling that the greatness of the novel lies with Gwendolen Harleth.

poohbear_nc · 08-03-2021, 02:56 PM

Thanks for sharing the information about the Souhami version - it sounds intriguing.
N.B. Unfortunately the U.S. price is now $11.99

I don't think that any reader in this thread had any positive words for the Deronda/Mordecai sections of the novel.

Bookpossum · 08-03-2021, 07:54 PM

I think that the problem was that Eliot was on a crusade, for want of a more appropriate word, to do battle with antisemitism. It was certainly a worthy cause, but worthiness doesn’t really make for a good read and/or an interesting plot. Hence everyone’s strong preference for the flawed but much more interesting Gwendolen and her difficult path through life.

She was a very real character, and the reader wonders how her life would develop. Daniel was a cardboard cutout by comparison, and his life after the end of the book would be bland and uninteresting, despite his attachment to Zionism. Too bad about the Palestinians, as we know now, but who were not a consideration back then.

08-03-2021, 12:45 PM	#98
fantasyfan Wizard Posts: 1,375 Karma: 26915798 Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Ireland Device: Kindle Oasis 3, 4G, iPad Air 2, iPhone IE	This is a case where I go along with F.R. Leavis. The Deronda section didn't work at all for me. I would agree with Bookpossum that Daniel is too good to be true and I personally find him too saintly to be likeable. Gwendolen is much more believable and I can honestly feel a compassion for her suffering at the end even as she accepts that her life must go on even if it is to be a lonely journey. “You have been very good to me. I have deserved nothing. I will try—try to live. I shall think of you. What good have I been? Only harm. Don’t let me be harm to you. It shall be the better for me—” She could not finish. It was not that she was sobbing, but that the intense effort with which she spoke made her too tremulous. The burden of that difficult rectitude toward him was a weight her frame tottered under. She bent forward to kiss his cheek, and he kissed hers. Then they looked at each other for an instant with clasped hands, and he turned away. When he was quite gone, her mother came in and found her sitting motionless. “Gwendolen, dearest, you look very ill,” she said, bending over her and touching her cold hands. “Yes, mamma. But don’t be afraid. I am going to live,” said Gwendolen, bursting out hysterically. Her mother persuaded her to go to bed, and watched by her. Through the day and half the night she fell continually into fits of shrieking, but cried in the midst of them to her mother, “Don’t be afraid. I shall live. I mean to live.” After all, she slept; and when she waked in the morning light, she looked up fixedly at her mother and said tenderly, “Ah, poor mamma! You have been sitting up with me. Don’t be unhappy. I shall live. I shall be better.” I find that a deeply moving moment . . . . I have no such emotional response to anything in the Deronda part of the novel. I notice that Diana Souhami has made an attempt to retell the story of Gwendolen Harleth in her novel Gwendolen: A Novel It is not an abridgement of Eliot, rather ". . . a bravura re-imagining of the life of one of English literature's most multi-faceted and contradictory heroines". (Comment from te Kindle edition}. Rebecca Mead describes it thus: In "Gwendolen" Souhami performs a bold feat of imagination: what would happen if George Eliot's final novel were retold from the perspective of its beautiful, complicated, circumscribed heroine? The result is intriguing and moving: a fictional recovery of the woman's interior experience that lies untold behind the man's journey to fulfillment, and a powerful meditation upon the nature of creativity. Both an arresting interpretation of George Eliot's work and a compelling fiction in its own right, "Gwendolen" will be whispering in my ear next time I go back to "Daniel Deronda" The ebook is quite inexpensive and I intend to give it a try. It does reinforce my feeling that the greatness of the novel lies with Gwendolen Harleth. Last edited by fantasyfan; 08-03-2021 at 12:48 PM.

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07-16-2021, 09:21 AM	#92
Bookpossum Snoozing in the sun Posts: 10,141 Karma: 115423645 Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Melbourne, Australia Device: iPad Mini, Kobo Touch	Is there still anybody out there? I have recently finished, and wondered how many others have done so. Are we going to discuss the book, or have people moved on to other things? Like others, I found Gwendolen far more interesting than Daniel. I couldn't like her, at least in the beginning, but her very flaws made her interesting, and her grim situation in being married to Grandcourt was something I wanted to see resolved for her. Daniel seemed to be so handsome, good, kind, intelligent, caring, etc etc that he wasn't a real person at all. I understand why Eliot made him such a paragon, but for me he was rather boring. His mother, though we see only a little of her, was far more interesting. I didn't think the book came anywhere near to Middlemarch, which was chock full of interesting characters.

07-16-2021, 11:32 AM	#93
pdurrant The Grand Mouse 高貴的老鼠 Posts: 72,717 Karma: 311192104 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Norfolk, England Device: Kindle Voyage	It's now some time since I finished it. I found Daniel's story more interesting than Gwendolyn's, although he himself is a ridiculous paragon, sacrificing his interests for those of his friends more than once. I found Gwendolyn's actions and reactions to be incredible. I didn't believe in her at all. All in all, I was not at all impressed. 2/5 for me.

07-16-2021, 05:20 PM	#94
poohbear_nc Bah! Humbug! Posts: 61,434 Karma: 135181808 Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Durham, NC Device: Every Kindle Ever Made & To Be Made!	My overall impression of the novel was that the plotting and characterizations were overly contrived or forced to make social statements/observations. The Jewish story line and the Gwendolyn story line did not ever mesh for me, and the Daniel/Gwendolyn relationship was just silly and unbelievable.

07-16-2021, 10:01 PM	#95
Bookpossum Snoozing in the sun Posts: 10,141 Karma: 115423645 Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Melbourne, Australia Device: iPad Mini, Kobo Touch	pdurrant, I found Gwendolen believable enough, given the very limited options women had in those days. I'm only surprised that she didn't actually push Grandcourt overboard! But of course I am being facetious - he was exercising what these days we call coercive control and had her in fear of him. What was hard to believe in, as poohbear says, was the supposed relationship between her and Daniel. He was a young man in his mid 20s or so as I recall, a few years older than Gwendolen to be sure, but he was advising her on how to live her life as if he was a wise elder in his 60s. I suppose he was such a paragon that he was wise beyond his years! I suppose we can all feel virtuous for having read it anyway.

07-26-2021, 01:40 AM	#96
CRussel (he/him/his) Posts: 12,247 Karma: 80074820 Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Sunshine Coast, BC Device: Oasis (Gen3),Paperwhite (Gen10), Voyage, Paperwhite(orig), Fire HD 8	It's not that he's a paragon, Bookpossum, it's just that he was an early proponent of "mansplaining'.

08-03-2021, 02:56 PM	#99
poohbear_nc Bah! Humbug! Posts: 61,434 Karma: 135181808 Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Durham, NC Device: Every Kindle Ever Made & To Be Made!	Thanks for sharing the information about the Souhami version - it sounds intriguing. N.B. Unfortunately the U.S. price is now $11.99 I don't think that any reader in this thread had any positive words for the Deronda/Mordecai sections of the novel.

08-03-2021, 07:54 PM	#100
Bookpossum Snoozing in the sun Posts: 10,141 Karma: 115423645 Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Melbourne, Australia Device: iPad Mini, Kobo Touch	I think that the problem was that Eliot was on a crusade, for want of a more appropriate word, to do battle with antisemitism. It was certainly a worthy cause, but worthiness doesn’t really make for a good read and/or an interesting plot. Hence everyone’s strong preference for the flawed but much more interesting Gwendolen and her difficult path through life. She was a very real character, and the reader wonders how her life would develop. Daniel was a cardboard cutout by comparison, and his life after the end of the book would be bland and uninteresting, despite his attachment to Zionism. Too bad about the Palestinians, as we know now, but who were not a consideration back then.