Touch Normal links becomes footnotes links in epub made with Calibre

il_mix · 08-07-2014, 05:37 AM

Don't know if it is Kobo related or (more probably) epub related. BTW, I noticed on this device.

So, Kobo has the footnote preview popup feature. Kinda useful.
I'm converting (semi-manually) an html book into an epub book using Calibre.
I split any single chapters in a different .xhtml file. There are several links with anchors between sections (it's a gamebook). So, e.g, in file ch1.xhtml I have

Code:

<a id="sect003">Section 3</a>

and in file ch3.xhtml the link that goes there

Code:

<a href="ch1.xhtml#sect003">Go to section 3</a>

What happens is that these links are seen as footnotes link by Kobo, so jumping around the book is kind of tedious.
I will make further tests, and try to attach a minimal example .epub with this problem.
In the meanwhile, can someone point out which links (format, id name, ...) are seen as "footnotes link" by Kobo?
Also, if it is epub-related, is there any option to set (in metadata?) to disable the footnote-links feature?

Thanks!
MIX

davidfor · 08-07-2014, 07:27 AM

Are you sending the epubs to the device as kepubs? I have only seen the popup when reading a kepub.

The other thought, is that it is because the link is to an anchor in the same file. The HTML contents page work without a popup. The one kepub I can quickly find with footnotes, has the popups and the links are references to other parts of the same file.

il_mix · 08-07-2014, 08:29 AM

Well, actually the links are for another file, as in the example (link in ch3.xhtml pointing to anchor in ch01.xhtml). BTW, sometimes they links to an anchor in the same file.
About the kepub I have to check. I sent it to the device using the "send to device" button, without checking any options (the same way I've always sent ebooks to the device). I don't know if there is something hidden. I will have a look.

EDIT:
I just checked on the Kobo, and the library says it is a "Kobo epub".
It seems that all the epub I've made was sent to device as kepub, while "original" epub (that I didn't edited/made myself) was sent as plain epub. Any hints?

Still, if someone can point me to which links will be set as popup links and which not, it will be still useful. This is a great feature for real footnotes. Navigating through my books, it seems kinda random...

il_mix · 08-07-2014, 09:07 AM

The kepub update seems due to some settings in calibre kobo plugins. I've re-sent to the device from a Calibre without plugins and now I can see it is a simple epub from kobo library.

Another strange behavior.
The links don't pop-up no more, but sometimes they simply jump to the link, sometimes they jump to the link and show the bottom and top toolbars, like when you click on the bottom of the page. From a fast test, it seems that a link that goes forward (e.g. from ch01.xhtml to an anchor in ch03.xhtml) will show the toolbars. A link that goes backwards (from ch04.xhtml to an anchor in ch02.xhtml) works correctly.
Speechless...
Any hints?

I've attached a sample epub file. Going to anchors in the same file works correctly. Going from chapter 2 to an anchor in chapter 1 works correctly. Going from chapter 1 to an anchor in chapter 2 works, but displays the toolbars.

Tech specs:
Epub made and sent to device with Calibre
Device: Kobo Touch
Firmware: 3.3.0

NOTE:
Trying to re-edit the books, I've seen that the .xhtml files are filled with "koboSpan" garbage. But I don't think this is the problem (the attached epub don't have garbage spans and still behave this way).

davidfor · 08-07-2014, 10:11 AM

To sideload a book as a kepub from calibre, either you are using the KoboTouchExtended driver, or you are doing a conversion to kepub and then sending that. By the sounds of it you have been using the KoboTouchExtended driver. To stop sending as kepubs, either disable that or uncheck the option that enables the conversion function in the driver.

Some of what you are seeing is the difference between how epubs and kepubs are handled. The epub renderer does not show popups for any links. The kepub renderer does for some. You are also seeing that the links in kepubs are easier to press than in epubs.

For kepubs, my quick test suggests that links that include the id or name (the bit after the "#" and I know it has a name, but I can't think of what it is) will show a popup. Links without this, do not show a popup.

Your test book does show that backwards links don't seem to show a popup. I suspect that is because for a footnote, there is commonly a link to return from the footnote. You wouldn't want a popup for that.

il_mix · 08-07-2014, 11:09 AM

Thanks for the info.

About the kepub conversion due to KoboTouchExtended, I will test this evening.

About the "random" popup, if what you say is true (# anchors links will trigger a popup) (well, at least when going forward ... and some other times), to avoid this behavior for non-footnote links I have to split each link destination into a new file. This can be done (all links are new sections), while a little tedious... By the way, I will test with a simplified version of my book.
About this, is there a way to sort the files in Calibre Editor by name automatically and not manually by drag/drop?

Last, about the sample epub I've attached, have you tested without kepub functionality? The problem is that even for plain epub, forward links will show the toolbars (not the popup like for kepub).

filmo · 08-07-2014, 11:37 AM

# is called number, pound, or hash tag in USA depending on usage. #! she bang

Jellby · 08-07-2014, 11:53 AM

But the bit after the "#" is called fragment identifier.

Anak · 08-07-2014, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jellby

But the bit after the "#" is called fragment identifier.

Do epub and epub follow the epub3 semantics?
Vocabulary Association

Note/footnote reference:

Code:

<a epub:type="noteref" href="#n1">1</a>
<a epub:type="footnote" href="#n1">1</a>

In combination with an aside element, which contains the text or definition that should pop-up?

Code:

<aside epub:type="footnote" id="n1">
<p>This text should be displayed in a pop-up screen.</p>
</aside>

il_mix · 08-07-2014, 01:00 PM

Anak, I'm new to those custom properties. Thanks for the info.
If these are used by kepub to choose if to open a pop-up or not, the question is: which type doesn't open a popup for sure?

filmo · 08-07-2014, 06:35 PM

#! is symbol for CrunchBang Linux.

This link has list of how # is used in computing.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_sign

il_mix · 08-08-2014, 03:38 AM

I confirm that the kepub automatic conversion is due to KoboTouchExtended driver, with "Enable Extended Kobo Features" selected.

il_mix · 08-08-2014, 11:41 AM

Anyone has tested my epub with the Kobo Touch to see the toolbar-exposing problem when using a link to a forward anchor? (see post #4)

davidfor · 08-08-2014, 06:52 PM

Sorry, forgot to comment on that. I think this is deliberate behaviour by Kobo. But, it doesn't work well for the Touch. For the Glo, Aura and Aura HD, when the bottom menu is displayed at this point, it has "Previous location" on the left. Tapping this, returns to the place you opened the footnote from. That way the backwards link is not needed. The Touch and the Mini use a different UI in the reader. The is one of the things missing.

BobC · 08-10-2014, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by filmo

# is called number, pound, or hash tag in USA depending on usage.

Also known as "Octothorpe"

BobC

08-07-2014, 05:37 AM	#1
il_mix Enthusiast Posts: 39 Karma: 20178 Join Date: Jun 2013 Device: Kobo Touch	Normal links becomes footnotes links in epub made with Calibre Don't know if it is Kobo related or (more probably) epub related. BTW, I noticed on this device. So, Kobo has the footnote preview popup feature. Kinda useful. I'm converting (semi-manually) an html book into an epub book using Calibre. I split any single chapters in a different .xhtml file. There are several links with anchors between sections (it's a gamebook). So, e.g, in file ch1.xhtml I have Code: <a id="sect003">Section 3</a> and in file ch3.xhtml the link that goes there Code: <a href="ch1.xhtml#sect003">Go to section 3</a> What happens is that these links are seen as footnotes link by Kobo, so jumping around the book is kind of tedious. I will make further tests, and try to attach a minimal example .epub with this problem. In the meanwhile, can someone point out which links (format, id name, ...) are seen as "footnotes link" by Kobo? Also, if it is epub-related, is there any option to set (in metadata?) to disable the footnote-links feature? Thanks! MIX

08-07-2014, 08:29 AM	#3
il_mix Enthusiast Posts: 39 Karma: 20178 Join Date: Jun 2013 Device: Kobo Touch	Well, actually the links are for another file, as in the example (link in ch3.xhtml pointing to anchor in ch01.xhtml). BTW, sometimes they links to an anchor in the same file. About the kepub I have to check. I sent it to the device using the "send to device" button, without checking any options (the same way I've always sent ebooks to the device). I don't know if there is something hidden. I will have a look. EDIT: I just checked on the Kobo, and the library says it is a "Kobo epub". It seems that all the epub I've made was sent to device as kepub, while "original" epub (that I didn't edited/made myself) was sent as plain epub. Any hints? Still, if someone can point me to which links will be set as popup links and which not, it will be still useful. This is a great feature for real footnotes. Navigating through my books, it seems kinda random... Last edited by il_mix; 08-07-2014 at 08:37 AM.

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08-07-2014, 07:27 AM	#2
davidfor Grand Sorcerer Posts: 24,905 Karma: 47303822 Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Sydney, Australia Device: Kobo:Touch,Glo, AuraH2O, GloHD,AuraONE, ClaraHD, Libra H2O; tolinoepos	Are you sending the epubs to the device as kepubs? I have only seen the popup when reading a kepub. The other thought, is that it is because the link is to an anchor in the same file. The HTML contents page work without a popup. The one kepub I can quickly find with footnotes, has the popups and the links are references to other parts of the same file.

08-07-2014, 10:11 AM	#5
davidfor Grand Sorcerer Posts: 24,905 Karma: 47303822 Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Sydney, Australia Device: Kobo:Touch,Glo, AuraH2O, GloHD,AuraONE, ClaraHD, Libra H2O; tolinoepos	To sideload a book as a kepub from calibre, either you are using the KoboTouchExtended driver, or you are doing a conversion to kepub and then sending that. By the sounds of it you have been using the KoboTouchExtended driver. To stop sending as kepubs, either disable that or uncheck the option that enables the conversion function in the driver. Some of what you are seeing is the difference between how epubs and kepubs are handled. The epub renderer does not show popups for any links. The kepub renderer does for some. You are also seeing that the links in kepubs are easier to press than in epubs. For kepubs, my quick test suggests that links that include the id or name (the bit after the "#" and I know it has a name, but I can't think of what it is) will show a popup. Links without this, do not show a popup. Your test book does show that backwards links don't seem to show a popup. I suspect that is because for a footnote, there is commonly a link to return from the footnote. You wouldn't want a popup for that.

08-07-2014, 11:09 AM	#6
il_mix Enthusiast Posts: 39 Karma: 20178 Join Date: Jun 2013 Device: Kobo Touch	Thanks for the info. About the kepub conversion due to KoboTouchExtended, I will test this evening. About the "random" popup, if what you say is true (# anchors links will trigger a popup) (well, at least when going forward ... and some other times), to avoid this behavior for non-footnote links I have to split each link destination into a new file. This can be done (all links are new sections), while a little tedious... By the way, I will test with a simplified version of my book. About this, is there a way to sort the files in Calibre Editor by name automatically and not manually by drag/drop? Last, about the sample epub I've attached, have you tested without kepub functionality? The problem is that even for plain epub, forward links will show the toolbars (not the popup like for kepub).

08-07-2014, 11:37 AM	#7
filmo Wizard Posts: 1,326 Karma: 1077205 Join Date: Jun 2011 Device: Kobo Touch, Sony T1, Kobo Mini	# is called number, pound, or hash tag in USA depending on usage. #! she bang

08-07-2014, 11:53 AM	#8
Jellby frumious Bandersnatch Posts: 7,536 Karma: 19000001 Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Spaniard in Sweden Device: Cybook Orizon, Kobo Aura	But the bit after the "#" is called fragment identifier.

08-07-2014, 01:00 PM	#10
il_mix Enthusiast Posts: 39 Karma: 20178 Join Date: Jun 2013 Device: Kobo Touch	Anak, I'm new to those custom properties. Thanks for the info. If these are used by kepub to choose if to open a pop-up or not, the question is: which type doesn't open a popup for sure?

08-07-2014, 06:35 PM	#11
filmo Wizard Posts: 1,326 Karma: 1077205 Join Date: Jun 2011 Device: Kobo Touch, Sony T1, Kobo Mini	#! is symbol for CrunchBang Linux. This link has list of how # is used in computing. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_sign

08-08-2014, 03:38 AM	#12
il_mix Enthusiast Posts: 39 Karma: 20178 Join Date: Jun 2013 Device: Kobo Touch	I confirm that the kepub automatic conversion is due to KoboTouchExtended driver, with "Enable Extended Kobo Features" selected.

08-08-2014, 11:41 AM	#13
il_mix Enthusiast Posts: 39 Karma: 20178 Join Date: Jun 2013 Device: Kobo Touch	Anyone has tested my epub with the Kobo Touch to see the toolbar-exposing problem when using a link to a forward anchor? (see post #4)

08-08-2014, 06:52 PM	#14
davidfor Grand Sorcerer Posts: 24,905 Karma: 47303822 Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Sydney, Australia Device: Kobo:Touch,Glo, AuraH2O, GloHD,AuraONE, ClaraHD, Libra H2O; tolinoepos	Sorry, forgot to comment on that. I think this is deliberate behaviour by Kobo. But, it doesn't work well for the Touch. For the Glo, Aura and Aura HD, when the bottom menu is displayed at this point, it has "Previous location" on the left. Tapping this, returns to the place you opened the footnote from. That way the backwards link is not needed. The Touch and the Mini use a different UI in the reader. The is one of the things missing.