Amazon has banned my account - my Kindle is now a (partial) brick.

Ian · 04-06-2009, 09:23 PM

Hi all-

I have been a loyal Amazon.com customer for many years, but today, I received an email stating that I have been banned from the site and my account has been closed, because I apparently have an extraordinary rate of requesting refunds due to a variety of factors.

This is patently not true: I have only returned items that were defective, in complete accordance with their policies. I was not trying to game the system, I was not trying to get things for free - I just wanted products that worked properly, and if they didn't, they went back.

There was no warning; in fact, when I asked a question about the lightness of my Kindle's e-ink, a cs rep said "no problem, I'll send you a new one" -- and even after I told him "don't bother if it's going to be the same, mine is OK" -- he sent a new one anyway.

I have certainly kept thousands of dollars worth of items purchased from Amazon and planned to be a lifelong customer.

The ban from the main site is bad (and inexplicable) enough, but...

I have now discovered that I cannot manage my Kindle2 account (I can't log into Amazon) or purchase any new content.

In effect, I now have a $359 brick, not covered under any warranty, not able to be used the way it was meant to be, not able to be returned (not that I even want to, I just want to keep reading!)

I called customer service several times today; the supervisors there explained that I cannot use the Kindle store but "I can get content onto the machine different ways."

I have emailed the proper address, but I'm not hopeful of a positive solution.

I know you all don't know me from Adam, but I'm a good guy and didn't deserve this at all -- and no, I'm not going to bash Amazon here -- instead, I'm just going to tell y'all I'm going to make every call and write every (professional) email I can to get this situation resolved.

But please let this be a lesson to all of us - when you buy a Kindle, you are really buying a service-

-and that service can be turned off at a whim.

Not cool at all.

Amazon, do you have any people who monitor these forums? As I've stated, I'm a loyal customer and would like to believe this is an error or some inadvertent mistake.

Will you make it right? Please help.

-Ian

daffy4u · 04-06-2009, 09:29 PM

Sorry, Ian.

I think you appear to Amazon to fit the profile of someone who buys books and holds them long enough to strip the DRM and then return the book.

If you can open a new account and register the Kindle to it, I would suggest the you make liberal use of the free samples so that you don't have to return books so often.

I'm very sorry this happened to you.

Nate the great · 04-06-2009, 09:31 PM

Does the Whispernet still work?

Ian · 04-06-2009, 09:34 PM

Hi-

Actually, I've never returned a single Kindle book.

The only things I HAVE returned were some large electronics - but honestly, ONLY when there were defects or flaws in them. If it works well, I keep it. Period.

The number of orders I've kept over the years I've been on the site far outweigh the number of items I've returned.

And any time I've had to return something, the cs reps were nothing but kind and accommodating. Certainly, if I were told it was NOT OK to return defective items, I wouldn't have even tried.

But with no warning, no explanation of policies, nothing at all, I'm now unable to purchase products at the world's biggest marketplace, nor am I able to help manage content on my Kindle, a product I truly do believe in and want to support- and that is at least 75% less useful without access to the store.

This is incredibly disheartening - I wonder if anyone has some idea how I can go about convincing them that I'm not some kind of scammer.

I AM someone who has been (and would happily continue to) evangelize the Kindle.

Now I'm a guy with a very expensive brick.

-Ian

RickyMaveety · 04-06-2009, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daffy4u

Sorry, Ian.

I think you appear to Amazon to fit the profile of someone who buys books and holds them long enough to strip the DRM and then return the book.

If you can open a new account and register the Kindle to it, I would suggest the you make liberal use of the free samples so that you don't have to return books so often.

I'm very sorry this happened to you.

Daffy ...

I think maybe you're reading something into this that isn't there. Ian said he returned "defective products" not books. I've only had to return something to Amazon once .... and never a book or an ebook. If Ian has had his account for his Kindle turned off because he has returned defective products (not defective ebooks ... defective products), then there is something seriously wrong about that.

daffy4u · 04-06-2009, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RickyMaveety

Daffy ...

I think maybe you're reading something into this that isn't there. Ian said he returned "defective products" not books. I've only had to return something to Amazon once .... and never a book or an ebook. If Ian has had his account for his Kindle turned off because he has returned defective products (not defective ebooks ... defective products), then there is something seriously wrong about that.

Yeah, I misread that and mis-understood until I read his follow-up post. Gotta say this is a new one. I've never heard of anyone being banned from Amazon.

lilac_jive · 04-06-2009, 09:56 PM

Have you returned anything since you received your Kindle? I'm asking because you could make the argument a lot more stinky (in a good way).

My best recommendation would be to give a full complete story to the website http://www.consumerist.com (make sure you explain briefly how a Kindle works, and why you're pretty stuck now). I know amazon has resolved issues that have been brought up on there.

FizzyWater · 04-06-2009, 10:02 PM

This is just stunning. It seems - at the very least - they should somehow allow continued access to the Kindle store. It's not like you were returning ebooks. And given Amazon's recent machinations to ensure you're buying books from only them, you really are left with a "partial brick" if they block your access!

Forster · 04-06-2009, 10:10 PM

I find it very hard to believe we are getting the whole story here.

Damætas · 04-06-2009, 10:21 PM

I'm not calling you a liar or anything, but that is just hard to believe. How many products have you returned? I've never heard of anything like this ever happening to anyone. If your side of the story is the whole truth, call the media. Seriously, this seems like a worthy story for the press -- especially with all the media attention that the K2 is getting these days. If Amazon really cut you off like that, I'd take my story all the way from the tech blogs to the Wall Street Journal. Also, I'd immediately make backups of all the .azw, .azw1, and .tpz files of the e-books you purchased from Amazon since they will no longer appear in Archives if anything happens to them. If you try to buck the system and re-register under a friend or relative's Amazon account or under a new one that you create, keep in mind that those previous purchases will no longer be readable.

Ian · 04-06-2009, 10:22 PM

Hi Forster-

I'm sorry if you don't believe me, and I am truly giving you all the whole story.

I have used Amazon.com for many years now, buying and keeping many, many things.

Yes, I have returned some very big ticket items (TVs, DSLR's), but let me be very clear here: I only returned items when they were defective, be it uneven backlighting (TVs) or out of focus lenses or improper dust sealing (cameras).

I realize that a cursory glance at these returns may look odd, and yet there was never any malicious intent here, none at all - and the entire time, all I was doing was following Amazon's own customer service policies. Every single cs rep I ever spoke to was friendly, and said "no problem, we'll return/exchange the item"

I've kept so many more things than I've ever returned, btw.

But now, there's been no warning, no written policy, no "hey, why did you return these items" - just a blanket ban on all things Amazon (and Kindle).

According to the note they sent me, I am not even able to contact the regular customer service line; in effect, I have a partially bricked Kindle that doesn't even qualify for its own warranty.

That's the whole story... if you do a search online for "amazon banned", you'll see this has happened to many people: some total scammers (good for Amazon!) and many just normal people like me who got rounded up inappropriately.

-Ian

slayda · 04-06-2009, 10:28 PM

Sounds like it's time for you to find and use the infamous KINDLEPID.PY!!!

wallcraft · 04-06-2009, 10:54 PM

Can you post a copy of the e-mail from Amazon? You should obviously delete any identifying information first.

So far as I know, any retailer in the US can refuse to sell you stuff - but in the case of the Kindle Amazon is no longer a retailer but a service provider. I think they may have to give you a full refund on your Kindle and all your Kindle purchases. The idea that Amazon would take the position that the Kindle is usable without access to the Kindle store is laughable. The Kindle has been very purposely designed to only work with the Store. There is no other source for DRMed ebooks that Amazon considers legitimate.

I don't think it matters if Ian is at "fault", i.e. if Amazon has a legitimate reason for banning future purchases. If the fault isn't with Kindle related purchases, then Amazon must continue to allow access for Kindle related tasks.

RickyMaveety · 04-06-2009, 10:55 PM

Well, I looked into it, and yes, apparently Amazon.com does this sort of thing quite a lot. The banned one guy for three returns in one year. Granted, they were expensive items, but if they were really defective, they should take that into consideration, or state the policy somewhere and very clearly.

Yet another reason that draconian DRM is a very bad idea. No one should be forced to keep a device they can't use or pay for content they can't access.

Damætas · 04-06-2009, 10:58 PM

Ian says: "That's the whole story... if you do a search online for "amazon banned", you'll see this has happened to many people: some total scammers (good for Amazon!) and many just normal people like me who got rounded up inappropriately."

I just googled "amazon banned" and read the stories. Wow. I'm stunned. It seems to me that they would at least give you 1 warning. But in all the other cases I read about, there wasn't a warning. Your story is consistent. You must have returned a rather large amount of expensive items. That seems to be the common theme. It makes sense to say, "1 more return and you're banned" or something like that. Rather than ban customers, why not revoke return/exchange privileges? If this happened to me, I'd be tempted to go over to the dark side, de-drm everything I had and acquire whatever I wanted from the darknet. Nuts!

04-06-2009, 09:23 PM	#1
Ian Member Posts: 17 Karma: 34 Join Date: Feb 2009 Device: Kindle	Amazon has banned my account - my Kindle is now a (partial) brick. Hi all- I have been a loyal Amazon.com customer for many years, but today, I received an email stating that I have been banned from the site and my account has been closed, because I apparently have an extraordinary rate of requesting refunds due to a variety of factors. This is patently not true: I have only returned items that were defective, in complete accordance with their policies. I was not trying to game the system, I was not trying to get things for free - I just wanted products that worked properly, and if they didn't, they went back. There was no warning; in fact, when I asked a question about the lightness of my Kindle's e-ink, a cs rep said "no problem, I'll send you a new one" -- and even after I told him "don't bother if it's going to be the same, mine is OK" -- he sent a new one anyway. I have certainly kept thousands of dollars worth of items purchased from Amazon and planned to be a lifelong customer. The ban from the main site is bad (and inexplicable) enough, but... I have now discovered that I cannot manage my Kindle2 account (I can't log into Amazon) or purchase any new content. In effect, I now have a $359 brick, not covered under any warranty, not able to be used the way it was meant to be, not able to be returned (not that I even want to, I just want to keep reading!) I called customer service several times today; the supervisors there explained that I cannot use the Kindle store but "I can get content onto the machine different ways." I have emailed the proper address, but I'm not hopeful of a positive solution. I know you all don't know me from Adam, but I'm a good guy and didn't deserve this at all -- and no, I'm not going to bash Amazon here -- instead, I'm just going to tell y'all I'm going to make every call and write every (professional) email I can to get this situation resolved. But please let this be a lesson to all of us - when you buy a Kindle, you are really buying a service- -and that service can be turned off at a whim. Not cool at all. Amazon, do you have any people who monitor these forums? As I've stated, I'm a loyal customer and would like to believe this is an error or some inadvertent mistake. Will you make it right? Please help. -Ian

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04-06-2009, 09:29 PM	#2
daffy4u I'm Super Kindle-icious Posts: 6,734 Karma: 2434103 Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Long Drive, Calinadia Candafornia Device: KDXG, KT, Oasis	Sorry, Ian. I think you appear to Amazon to fit the profile of someone who buys books and holds them long enough to strip the DRM and then return the book. If you can open a new account and register the Kindle to it, I would suggest the you make liberal use of the free samples so that you don't have to return books so often. I'm very sorry this happened to you.

04-06-2009, 09:31 PM	#3
Nate the great Sir Penguin of Edinburgh Posts: 12,375 Karma: 23555235 Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: DC Metro area Device: Shake a stick plus 1	Does the Whispernet still work?

04-06-2009, 09:34 PM	#4
Ian Member Posts: 17 Karma: 34 Join Date: Feb 2009 Device: Kindle	Hi- Actually, I've never returned a single Kindle book. The only things I HAVE returned were some large electronics - but honestly, ONLY when there were defects or flaws in them. If it works well, I keep it. Period. The number of orders I've kept over the years I've been on the site far outweigh the number of items I've returned. And any time I've had to return something, the cs reps were nothing but kind and accommodating. Certainly, if I were told it was NOT OK to return defective items, I wouldn't have even tried. But with no warning, no explanation of policies, nothing at all, I'm now unable to purchase products at the world's biggest marketplace, nor am I able to help manage content on my Kindle, a product I truly do believe in and want to support- and that is at least 75% less useful without access to the store. This is incredibly disheartening - I wonder if anyone has some idea how I can go about convincing them that I'm not some kind of scammer. I AM someone who has been (and would happily continue to) evangelize the Kindle. Now I'm a guy with a very expensive brick. -Ian

04-06-2009, 09:56 PM	#7
lilac_jive Grand Sorcerer Posts: 5,870 Karma: 27376 Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Pennsylvania Device: PRS-505	Have you returned anything since you received your Kindle? I'm asking because you could make the argument a lot more stinky (in a good way). My best recommendation would be to give a full complete story to the website http://www.consumerist.com (make sure you explain briefly how a Kindle works, and why you're pretty stuck now). I know amazon has resolved issues that have been brought up on there.

04-06-2009, 10:02 PM	#8
FizzyWater You kids get off my lawn! Posts: 4,220 Karma: 73492664 Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Columbus, Ohio Device: Oasis 2 and Libra H2O and half a dozen older models I can't let go of	This is just stunning. It seems - at the very least - they should somehow allow continued access to the Kindle store. It's not like you were returning ebooks. And given Amazon's recent machinations to ensure you're buying books from only them, you really are left with a "partial brick" if they block your access!

04-06-2009, 10:10 PM	#9
Forster Member Posts: 23 Karma: 642 Join Date: Mar 2009 Device: kindle 2, DX, kindle fire, kindle 3, kindle PW	I find it very hard to believe we are getting the whole story here.

04-06-2009, 10:21 PM	#10
Damætas Connoisseur Posts: 52 Karma: 152 Join Date: Mar 2009 Device: Kindle 2	I'm not calling you a liar or anything, but that is just hard to believe. How many products have you returned? I've never heard of anything like this ever happening to anyone. If your side of the story is the whole truth, call the media. Seriously, this seems like a worthy story for the press -- especially with all the media attention that the K2 is getting these days. If Amazon really cut you off like that, I'd take my story all the way from the tech blogs to the Wall Street Journal. Also, I'd immediately make backups of all the .azw, .azw1, and .tpz files of the e-books you purchased from Amazon since they will no longer appear in Archives if anything happens to them. If you try to buck the system and re-register under a friend or relative's Amazon account or under a new one that you create, keep in mind that those previous purchases will no longer be readable.

04-06-2009, 10:22 PM	#11
Ian Member Posts: 17 Karma: 34 Join Date: Feb 2009 Device: Kindle	Hi Forster- I'm sorry if you don't believe me, and I am truly giving you all the whole story. I have used Amazon.com for many years now, buying and keeping many, many things. Yes, I have returned some very big ticket items (TVs, DSLR's), but let me be very clear here: I only returned items when they were defective, be it uneven backlighting (TVs) or out of focus lenses or improper dust sealing (cameras). I realize that a cursory glance at these returns may look odd, and yet there was never any malicious intent here, none at all - and the entire time, all I was doing was following Amazon's own customer service policies. Every single cs rep I ever spoke to was friendly, and said "no problem, we'll return/exchange the item" I've kept so many more things than I've ever returned, btw. But now, there's been no warning, no written policy, no "hey, why did you return these items" - just a blanket ban on all things Amazon (and Kindle). According to the note they sent me, I am not even able to contact the regular customer service line; in effect, I have a partially bricked Kindle that doesn't even qualify for its own warranty. That's the whole story... if you do a search online for "amazon banned", you'll see this has happened to many people: some total scammers (good for Amazon!) and many just normal people like me who got rounded up inappropriately. -Ian

04-06-2009, 10:28 PM	#12
slayda Retired & reading more! Posts: 2,764 Karma: 1884247 Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: North Alabama, USA Device: Kindle 1, iPad Air 2, iPhone 6S+, Kobo Aura One	Sounds like it's time for you to find and use the infamous KINDLEPID.PY!!!

04-06-2009, 10:54 PM	#13
wallcraft reader Posts: 6,975 Karma: 5183568 Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Mississippi, USA Device: Kindle 3, Kobo Glo HD	Can you post a copy of the e-mail from Amazon? You should obviously delete any identifying information first. So far as I know, any retailer in the US can refuse to sell you stuff - but in the case of the Kindle Amazon is no longer a retailer but a service provider. I think they may have to give you a full refund on your Kindle and all your Kindle purchases. The idea that Amazon would take the position that the Kindle is usable without access to the Kindle store is laughable. The Kindle has been very purposely designed to only work with the Store. There is no other source for DRMed ebooks that Amazon considers legitimate. I don't think it matters if Ian is at "fault", i.e. if Amazon has a legitimate reason for banning future purchases. If the fault isn't with Kindle related purchases, then Amazon must continue to allow access for Kindle related tasks.

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04-06-2009, 10:55 PM	#14
RickyMaveety Holy S**T!!! Posts: 5,213 Karma: 108401 Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: San Diego, California!! Device: Kindle and iPad	Well, I looked into it, and yes, apparently Amazon.com does this sort of thing quite a lot. The banned one guy for three returns in one year. Granted, they were expensive items, but if they were really defective, they should take that into consideration, or state the policy somewhere and very clearly. Yet another reason that draconian DRM is a very bad idea. No one should be forced to keep a device they can't use or pay for content they can't access.

04-06-2009, 10:58 PM	#15
Damætas Connoisseur Posts: 52 Karma: 152 Join Date: Mar 2009 Device: Kindle 2	Ian says: "That's the whole story... if you do a search online for "amazon banned", you'll see this has happened to many people: some total scammers (good for Amazon!) and many just normal people like me who got rounded up inappropriately." I just googled "amazon banned" and read the stories. Wow. I'm stunned. It seems to me that they would at least give you 1 warning. But in all the other cases I read about, there wasn't a warning. Your story is consistent. You must have returned a rather large amount of expensive items. That seems to be the common theme. It makes sense to say, "1 more return and you're banned" or something like that. Rather than ban customers, why not revoke return/exchange privileges? If this happened to me, I'd be tempted to go over to the dark side, de-drm everything I had and acquire whatever I wanted from the darknet. Nuts!