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Wizard
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Convention for de, du, Le as parts of names?
I'm preparing Bel Ami by Guy de Maupassant for the MR library, and am using a 19th century American English translation as the source text. In chapter 5 there is the text 'the door opened and Mesdames Forestier and De Marelle appeared.'
Should not that be de Marelle? Is there a convention or 'best style' for de and du as parts of names? So far as I can tell Le as part of a surname is always Le rather then le; is that correct? The ebook I am preparing will be in British English, if that makes any difference. |
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According to this page :
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Particule_(onomastique) It should indead be "de" and not "De" If wikipedia can be trusted.... |
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A curiosus lector!
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Hi Alex,
I agree with Eowyn for de. It should be the same for le (and not Le): for example: Pierre le Grand, not Pierre Le Grand. AFAIK, the British way of wording is often nearer (for some patterns) to French than the USA way. PS If you want to see how complex this simple matter is, go here: http://www.btb.termiumplus.gc.ca/red...psect3&info0=3 and look 3.3.9 Noms de famille: this is daunting, but useful! Last edited by Arios; 06-23-2015 at 06:33 PM. |
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Many thanks to you both.
I could get by in French when I worked in Canada, but lost nearly all I had learned when we returned to Australia in 2000. So I'm afraid I can't cope with articles in French. PS: How should I spell 'Le Fanu'? Last edited by AlexBell; 06-23-2015 at 11:02 PM. |
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Wizard
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Another question:
Later in Bel Ami the main male character changes his surname from Duroy to du Roy - or at least that's the way I think it should be spelled; the source text often uses Du Roy. Is du Roy correct when the name is in the middle of a sentence? When the name is the first words in a sentence should I use Du Roy? |
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As curious as it sounds, you should say Le Fanu the same way, for example, as La Fontaine and le duc de La Rochefoucauld because they are part and in front of family's name.
If there is a rationale behind the rule above ![]() Alex you can go here: (http://www.ebooksgratuits.com/ebooks.php) and download this http://www.ebooksgratuits.com/newsen...1289&format=so The source doc for "Bel-Ami Édition illustrée" so you can do a search for problematic names. BTW this a nice édition. PS IMO (and you know that of course!), one good rule is to have the same names systematically across the novel. Last edited by Arios; 06-24-2015 at 02:04 PM. |
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Le Fanu was of course not French; he was Irish, and his name should therefore be treated according to the normal rules of the English language (ie capitalised).
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So Harry, if the source of fr.wikipedia is good, from a genealogical point of view, Le Fanu has French origin. (Some people named Le Fanu can be spotted in Normandy: http://vincent.lerouvillois.free.fr/html/n31.htm). Alex aceflor is right: variation in the wording of the name is important and need to be respected (see pages 205-206 in the Bel-Ami word document). I have read this novel a long time ago, sorry for my mistake! |
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I wonder if we're drifting perilously close to a Facsimilite versus Bowdlerite controversy here.
I have looked at Bel Ami in the original French and was puzzled to see that after the name change the spelling is occasionally du Roy and occasionally Du Roy, even within a few lines of each other in the same paragraph. As far as I could tell if the name followed any punctuation mark it was Du Roy. If the name did not follow a punctuation mark it was du Roy. Also, I got hold of the Penguin version of Bel Ami from the local library this afternoon. So far as I can tell after the name change every time the name occurs it's Du Roy. That to me is just as ugly as the variation in the French version. Rightly or wrongly, for good or for bad, in my edition of Bel Ami if the name follows a full stop I'm going to make it Du Roy. If the name does not follow a full stop I'm going to make it du Roy. |
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