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View Poll Results: Should we change one of the classic months to another genre? | |||
Yes - Change it | 12 | 30.77% | |
No - Leave it as it is | 20 | 51.28% | |
Either way is fine with me | 7 | 17.95% | |
Voters: 39. You may not vote on this poll |
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07-26-2011, 03:05 PM | #61 | |||
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The problem is that this is too vague. Take what the literary book club is about to maybe read. A Passage to India. It does not merit lasting recognition. So would it still be a classic in that case?
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But what about a book that shows us something that is not life, truth, & beauty? Can't it show something ugly and still be classic? What about a book or series of books that when you finish reading you say to yourself, "I wish there was more". Would that count towards maybe being classic? What touches some do not touch others. And just because a book touches us, does not make it a classic. I've read some Star Trek books that have touched a lot of people. They may be considered classic within the Star Trek universe, but not outside. There is no one definition of classic that can embrace what a classic is. The definitions you posted, why good are not the be all and end all of what a classic can be. The problem is that there are a lot of books that are classic are horribly awful and some of them are foisted on kids in school and that causes the kids to take a dislike to reading. All in the name of classics. The problem is that classic is way too vague. Yes, you can know it when you see it, but just because you see it or I see it, doesn't mean others see it. In fact, Quote:
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Would you not have to say that a book written 14 years ago that's still popular and may have a resurgence to be possibly a classic? 14 years is quite a good amount of time (IMHO) for a book to retain popularity. What might be a good idea (IMHO) would be for someone to explain why he/she thinks the nomination is a classic and if it fits, it gets nominated and if not, it doesn't. Some books that are considered to be classic, I just don't see it. For example, Rendezvous With Rama. It's supposed to be a classic, but I just don't see it. And since some won't see all nominations as classic, why not have the nominator explain why it's a classic so maybe we can get everyone on board. The last time we had classics, the limitations were such that most of the nominated books were awful. We can't have such limitations for fear of a repeat. We need to keep it open. |
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07-26-2011, 03:09 PM | #62 | |
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But to be honest, SF & Fantasy are different in the true sense . But there is a book (or series) by Piers Anthony that is both SF & fantasy in the same book. But there there are also Mysteries that are thrillers. So really, we just have to make sure the books in question do not fall too much to the other side and keep mostly to the topic at hand. Last edited by JSWolf; 07-26-2011 at 03:12 PM. |
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07-26-2011, 03:22 PM | #63 | ||
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07-26-2011, 03:52 PM | #64 | |
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Yes, I am serious! Here's the timeline of events: JSWolf complained about the classics months in general, then took on two classics months. Some people agreed, some didn't, but the issue continued to be pressed by JSWolf. JSWolf even suggested "Modern Classic" to replace a classic month way back then. Some were supportive, some were not. pilotbob said he was open to what the members wanted. JSWolf claimed overwhelming support for a change, then issybird chimed in countering the claim. You and I and others also were involved. Eventually, the idea of a poll was brought up. Neither I nor issybird agreed with the idea of a poll to just look at support for only the two classic months. But some others said a poll is the fairest way to decide if we should keep two classic months or not. So pilotbob started a poll to decide if we should leave things as they are or change them. I honestly thought the two classics would lose (but barely - I was guessing close to equal support for both sides). So far, the poll has clearly shown most people wanting to leave things as they are. Despite that, pilotbob then offered the option of replacing one classic month with "modern classic". I have countered that option by pointing out that to do so would be to invalidate the poll if the results stay the same. |
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07-26-2011, 04:00 PM | #65 | |
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I don't think the problem here is with two classic months. I think it is with the narrow definition of classic or the complete lack of a definition of classic. Can someone define it? Can we agree on it? I don't believe it actually is age. There will always be that point in time that we define classic as having to be older than at which we find a book of great quality that is one year not old enough. Do we let it in? Slippery slope is an invalid argument because letting that one in shouldn't open the floodgate for two years younger, three years younger. But the original line is arbitrary. It's exclusionary. Classic, to me, would be a book that you would hold up within any category as a good example for the category. People tend to understand quality when they see it, even if they can't actually define it. "Your classic author is the one you cannot feel indifferent to, who helps you define yourself in relation to him, even in dispute with him" (Italo Calvino). A book that is one of "those we know we should have read" (Chris Cox). It is a personal choice what classic is. I would call "If On a Winter's Night a Traveller" a classic, but it is only 32 years old now. I feel it's a poor choice to have two months devoted to such a non-genre and difficult to pinpoint topic as classic. That's why I voted to change it and suggested a couple of options in one of the threads. But the voters want to keep the category. I believe we let people nominate what they feel is classic and let the voters weed out what is not really that way just as they have told us that there is no problem in having two classic months. |
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07-26-2011, 04:11 PM | #66 | |
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Jon made a suggestion, I agreed with it, others weighed in. Nobody has been confused.The very poll itself is showing that no one is confused. Those who have wanted to weigh in have weighed in...I'm still not seeing the problem here. It really feels like you're saying everyone should have just shut up and said nothing at all. |
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07-26-2011, 05:46 PM | #67 | ||
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Surfer's not saying that, at all. The reality of this campaign is that the gadfly-in-chief kept pushing for a change to December's classic month. At the point where he claimed (and a four-letter word starting with "L" would be appropriate here) that no one had posted in opposition to eliminating a classic month, things got contentious. So first of all, the gadfly shouldn't have made a false claim, easily disproved by scrolling upthread. So while gadfly is entitled to his opinion, he's not entitled to lie about other people's opinions. Then gadfly pushed for a poll, even to trying to keep his hands clean and getting you to start it, which you, properly, resisted, kicking it over to BOb. So at this point, where was the groundswell in favor of change? But we had the poll, and guess what? Poll didn't go gadfly's way. So gadfly said, in so many words Quote:
And now that things are going against them, the anti-classic faction seems to want to compromise. Strong arm tactics didn't work, so now they want to talk. Oy! Bad timing. Some of us wanted to look at the whole shibboleth when the issue was raised. Others just wanted to change what they didn't like. And some, perhaps, just like to create trouble. |
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07-26-2011, 05:53 PM | #68 | |
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Yes, it is time for discussion and nominations to go up. I'm not sure why I missed them... I must have deleted my reminder before I actually started them. BOb |
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07-26-2011, 06:00 PM | #69 | |
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I'm going to disagree with you about the term classic, however. it's squishy, but it's not that squishy. There's disagreement at the margins, but I think most tend to have a sense of what it means. It's in common parlance, after all, and we seem to get along about it. And know what area of the bookstore to check! |
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07-26-2011, 06:04 PM | #70 | |
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The suggestion of more clearly defining the classics because people disagree on what a classic is was also an idea I wanted to gauge reaction to. Oh, and Jon, don't be so pedantic. Pre WW-1 would be Classic and from the start of WW-1 on would be Modern Classic. The duration of the war is not a exclusive time period of the division. BOb Last edited by pilotbob; 07-27-2011 at 02:19 PM. |
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07-26-2011, 06:09 PM | #71 | |
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Understand this - I am nobody else on this forum but me! Just as I have agreed with Jon about this I have disagreed with him on other things...like that to year nomination thing on the Literary thread. But you don't see that do you? No becuase its not what you want to hear. Edit to Add: An apology to Jon, whom I'm assuming Issybird has decided to call a gadfly. That is obviously not your name, and therefore you should not be called outside of your name. Last edited by Nyssa; 07-26-2011 at 06:21 PM. |
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07-26-2011, 06:21 PM | #72 |
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Nyssa, to the extent you keep citing Jon, you're going to be hoist with his petard.
And please, don't ascribe motives to me. "Just now"? "Not what [I] want to hear?" I've been consistent and on message throughout this whole dreary discussion. I'll note that you've gone back to the word "unfair". You're unwilling to hear what others say, apparently, because I've addressed that word until I'm blue in the face. Get this: NO final determination about what months are devoted to what classification or genre is unfair on the face of it. If TPTB decided to make eleven months out of twelve, SF months, I wouldn't think it was unfair. Sheesh! Some months I'd read, some months I wouldn't. The MR club isn't a lifeboat. |
07-26-2011, 06:26 PM | #73 |
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Issybird, are you Sun Surfer? You tend to agree with Sun surfer, so I guess its okay if I treat you as though you are her. What a ridiculous thing to say! I've quoted Orlok a lot am I him? I've quoted Elfwreck, am I him? I quote a lot of people that does not mean that I am them. I treat each and every person on this board as the individual that they are and I expect to me treated the same.
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07-26-2011, 06:44 PM | #74 | |
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07-26-2011, 07:56 PM | #75 |
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This has turned into one of the silliest arguments I've seen in a long while. I've got a solution to the whole thing. Let's drop the book of the month and everybody can read whatever they like.
That's what I plan to do. Just isn't worth it anymore. |
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