Cybook Gen3 firmware on Netronix EB-100

[dottedmag]

Originally Posted by jotheman

Why would one want to use that crappy Cybook frimware anyway?

For instance, there is Explay TXT.Ebook, which is... erm... .txt ebook manufactured by the same OEM, but with different firmare.

[delphidb96]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Bookeen have licenced the MobiPocket Reader from Mobi, and that copyrighted code is a part of the Gen's firmware. If someone has copied that code onto a different platform, they are in breach of Mobi's copyright, and Mobi have shown in the past (eg with people who've copied the Java version of the reader from the iLiad) that they'll come down on you like the proverbial "ton of bricks". I don't want to see the original poster getting into trouble. This has nothing to go with GPL.

Harry,

The Mobipocket software in the firmware was not modified at all. And the platform - in the sense of different hardware - is not different enough to require substantive modification of the OS or Boo Reader. (From what I understand, the "patched" firmware was merely modified to NOT look for the pre-existence of the Boo Reader on the target device.) IOW, for those who've bought the original Cybook (and the newer version, except the RAM has been boosted to 512MB), the hardware is IDENTICAL to a Netronix EB-100.

There IS the question of porting the specific copy of the update_firmware to a specific EB-100. However, that is best addressed by Bookeen, not by Mobipocket as doing so does NOT deprive Mobipocket of Cybook customer sales, rather it ADDS EB-100 owners (and quite possibly owners of Explay, Orsio and STAReBOOK) to that pool. Clearly a win-win for Mobipocket.

Further, this test was done, if I understand correctly, to determine, when the time comes that the OpenInkpot OS design is ported over from the Hanlin to the Cybook, if much further modification of OI would be required to port to these other devices in the Netronix/Bookeen family. I seriously doubt the average customer would be willing to go through the trouble of buying a Cybook Gen3, registering it in order to gain access to the latest firmware build, modifying said build (Remember, Bookeen is constantly working to improve the firmware.), and then installing said patch over the Netronix device. This is NOT a trivial exercise!

Hopefully, once OI is completed, it will be set up in such a way as to allow it to boot (and only run - not install itself) from the SD card. That would allow any device purchaser to keep their firmware install on the device while still retaining the option to boot into OI and run whichever reader app they want.

Derek

[guguy]

By the way, since the EB-100 has twice as much ram as the GEN3
(32MB vs 16MB) shouldn't it load mobi books faster ?

[pilotbob]

Originally Posted by dottedmag

By compiling this code to the single binary with GPL-licensed code theey violated the rights of authors of GPL-licensed code. I'm afraid it will be hard times for Bookeen if FSF Europe finally pay attention to it (unfortunately FSF Europe is overwhelmed by GPL violation reports at the moment).

My mom always used to tell me, "Two wrongs don't make a right."

BOb

[delphidb96]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Thank you, Tad, that's what I was trying to find out - whether the original poster was redistributing Bookeen's firmware (which would not be legal) or simply providing information about how to install it on other hardware, for people appropriately licensed to do so. If it's the latter, then obviously there's no problem and my concern has been addressed.

I would suggest, however, that before installing the firmware on a different machine, that it would be prudent for people to contact Bookeen and ascertain whether or not their software licence permits them to do so. I have a suspicion (but I may, of course, be incorrect) that it does not.

I fully agree that Bookeen has the right to expect that anyone wanting to use the Boo Reader should have to buy the Cybook Gen3. It's a good ebook reader.

However, once a person *has* purchased said reader, and, for the purpose of maintaining said reader, has downloaded a copy of the firmware update, that person has the right to take his or her copy and hack into it for personal use. It should not be used to 'give away' Boo Reader to competitors. Nor to sell the modified versions to others.

I know that Microsoft has made the proverbial "mountain out of a molehill" over keeping OS install discs and using them on later/other machines, but the fact is that a customer *SHOULD* be able to install that OS on any machine s/he owns. (God knows I tend to collect PCs... so the chance of me selling or giving away one of these is slim - at best. ) And look how many people ignore Microsoft's desires. The same reasoning applies here. If a person wants to take the chance of irreversibly modifying a legally-purchased, personal, EB-100 to run Boo Reader from a legally-obtained personal copy of the latest Cybook firmware, then, well, both of those devices belong to that person and he should be able to do so. In fact, he should be able to go the other way - install the EB-100 firmware over the Cybook firmware - not that I've seen any rational reason to do so, but it's the owner's choice.

(And if one of you owns a Cybook and an EB-100 and you've chosen to install the Ebook Reader (ebrmain) app on the Cybook, I *DON'T* want to know that you've sunk to such depths of depravity. Seriously, the reading software stinks!)

Derek

[pilotbob]

Originally Posted by delphidb96

However, once a person *has* purchased said reader, and, for the purpose of maintaining said reader, has downloaded a copy of the firmware update, that person has the right to take his or her copy and hack into it for personal use.

Really. What gives a person that right?

BOb

[delphidb96]

Originally Posted by jotheman

Why would one want to use that crappy Cybook frimware anyway? Mobipocket support, OK, but other than that? Is the firmware on the other decives so bad, even worse than the Cybook? It is interesting as an experiment, though, and I can see why one would try it: just because it's possible.

Well, have fun then.

Crappy? Compared to... the Ebook Reader (ebrmain) that's on the EB-100? Don't make me laugh! And for all it's stability, the Sony reader app isn't all that flexible either. I've not seen the Kindle up-close-and-personal so I cant' comment on this, but lack of PDF support and a stone-age Library system is hardly enough to call Bookeen's Boo Reader "crappy".

Derek

[delphidb96]

Originally Posted by pilotbob

My mom always used to tell me, "Two wrongs don't make a right."

BOb

And I'd agree with you if the intent was to 'clone' the Cybook and then market it. But there's been a long tradition that a user can modify his/her item any way s/he sees fit. That's what's been done here.

This is NOT a trivial process! And at the moment, it is doubtful that the EB-100 can be returned to its "pre-Boo Reader" state. (One needs a copy of update firmware from Netronix for that - and Netronix has not provided *any* version on it's website.)

As a learning tool to see just what similarities and differences there are between the two devices, this is a legitimate experiment. That it allows an owner of an EB-100 to no longer suffer under the EB-100s native ebook reading application can only be counted a *plus* as it now lets said owner purchase Secure Mobipocket ebooks instead of suffering through disgustingly failed attempts at converting from chm, html, pdf, rtf, lit, pdb and prc to stk. That can only be counted as 'good' for Mobipocket - a customer has been added!

And as the familial unit in question had already purchased a Sony PRS-500, PRS-505 and Cybook Gen3, I think we can safely say that all three companies have earned a profit already. (Wanted: Volunteers to help sort out who gets to use which device - this may be a full-time, permanent position. )

Derek

[pilotbob]

Originally Posted by delphidb96

And I'd agree with you if the intent was to 'clone' the Cybook and then market it. But there's been a long tradition that a user can modify his/her item any way s/he sees fit. That's what's been done here.

How much does the EB-100 cost? I assume if you buy one of those because it cost less than the CyBook and use the CyBook firmware are you denying CyBook a sale and in effect stealing their firmware? After all you paid for 1 CyBook device with included firmware for that device.

This is the same as buying 10 PCs and 1 copy of Windows and installing that copy of Windows on all 10 machines. That is NOT ok and you do NOT have that "right". The license states 1 copy per machine.

You are rationalizing here. Just like people that download an eBook that they didn't pay for, because they aren't "profiting" from it.

BOb

[Nate the great]

Originally Posted by pilotbob

Really. What gives a person that right?

BOb

You bought it, you own it, you get to do what you want with your property.

I want to chime in on the license issue. First of all, the license cannot be enforced on the device hardware (in the USA). There is a license pertaining to the firmware running on the device. It may or may not be legally enforcible.

And then there is the 538 firmware upgrade. When I requested it from Bookeen, they made no attempt to verify that I owned a Cybook, nor did they include a license statement in the email. Thus, the 538 firmware has no license, and modifying it cannot be a violation. It has the same legal status as a free ebook.

So the only thing that applies is your local copyright law. Some of us here can legally modify the 538 firmware, but almost no one can legally distribute it.

[TadW]

UHM, I think we need to differentiate here.

1. To offer the modified Cybook firmware for other readers -- probably illegal, since it contains copyright-protected code

2. To offer the tools to modify the firmware -- if the tools don't contain copyright protected code or intellectual property, and if they don't circumvent access control -- not illegal

3. To offer instruction how to modify the firmware and apply it to another device -- not illegal, unless the instruction contains detailed information / trade secrets (like unlock codes) how to circumvent access controls

4. To make it a personal project to analyze the similarities and differences of e-book readers, including their firmwares -- not illegal

5. To apply a modified firmware or to follow the instruction how to apply the firmware from device A onto device B, for personal use -- maybe illegal, depending on where you live, something the user has to figure out for himself.

[delphidb96]

Originally Posted by pilotbob

Really. What gives a person that right?

BOb

Bob,

Let me spell it out in tiny, one-syllable words. If I buy a toaster, it is my right to take off the case, study it, change the wiring, and create a bread-machine (presuming I have sufficient knowledge and the will, materials and tools to do so). Why, because I *bought* it. I *OWN* that unit. As the owner I can even take a sledgehammer to it and smash it into plastic-and-metal dust if I so desire. No, I can't go throwing said toaster (or toaster dust) at my neighbor - that would be harming another - but I can pretty much do whatever I want with that toaster. Same thing applies for my Cybook Gen3, my EB-100 and the Harmar lift on the family pickup. I can even ask over friends to help out. (Of course, there's the possibility that I or my friends might get injured in the process, so I better carry insurance. )

The situation would be different if I wanted to take that toaster and set up a shop which made competing toasters - based on the original design - right down to the specific shape of the manufacturer's parts, but which incorporated a bread machine. I *could* however, document my attempts and let others know. I could even encourage others to buy the toaster and make the modifications. I could use the general knowledge gained of how a toaster works to design a completely new toaster/bread-machine - as long as I designed new parts that weren't an exact copy of the original toaster. *That* is called 'competition'. Can you say 'competition'? I knew you could!

Look, the need to take things apart to see how they work, and then to try to change or improve them is pretty much hard-wired into our DNA. And when things are designed to thwart that, you can darned well bet that some people will view the "hiding" as a special challenge.

Also note that there is a direct monetary cost to making these modifications. One first has to *buy* an EB-100. And then one has to, if one has not already done so, *buy* a Cybook Gen3 and register to get the firmware update. Then one has to take the time to get, install and learn how to use the toolchain for modifying the firmware files - as well as *buy* any software or tools needed to accomplish the task. For an individual who wants to 'see if it can be done', the cost involved is far higher than just buying one Cybook Gen3 and being satisfied with it. In fact, it's pumped money into several different companies.

Could someone choose to emulate solely for the purpose of setting up a competing "clone" of the Cybook? Sure. And the attempt would be so blatantly obvious that no court would have a problem with sending that person to jail. But that wasn't what this was about.

I hope you can 'get' the concept.

Derek

[pilotbob]

Originally Posted by delphidb96

Let me spell it out in tiny, one-syllable words. If I buy a toaster, it is my right to take off the case, study it, change the wiring, and create a bread-machine (presuming I have sufficient knowledge and the will, materials and tools to do so).

I hope you can 'get' the concept.

Two responses right off the bat...

1. You apparently don't know what one-syllable words are.

2. Your message was very condescending and that was uncalled for. I guess you can't have an intellegent conversation without resorting to such tatics.

Now for the benefit of others that may be following the thread.

It is extremely obvious that a physical item is much different from a digital asset such as software or ebook. (See the hundreds of threads on DRM.)

Heck, you can even resell that toaster... but once you do it's gone. Sure, you can take the heating elements out of your Sony toaster and put it into your Bookeen toaster... but once you do that, you have no more use of your Sony toaster.

Software is different. It is covered by copyright laws. Even if there isn't an explicit license telling you this, by law a copyright is automaticaly inforce.

Sure, you can hack your CyBook software all you want. I see no problem with that. But, when you move that software to another device, this is where I see the problem. Now, if you get written permission from the copyright holder, I'm fine with it. And I certainly admit you probably aren't hurting anyone or seriously causing damage to CyBooks business.

As a software developer software copyright issues are very important to me. And when people don't see the value of that because it is so easy to copy that gets personal to me and my livelyhood.

Peace... can't we just all get along even if we have differening opinions?

BOb

[delphidb96]

Originally Posted by TadW

UHM, I think we need to differentiate here.

1. To offer the modified Cybook firmware for other readers -- probably illegal, since it contains copyright-protected code

2. To offer the tools to modify the firmware -- if the tools don't contain copyright protected code or intellectual property, and if they don't circumvent access control -- not illegal

3. To offer instruction how to modify the firmware and apply it to another device -- not illegal, unless the instruction contains detailed information / trade secrets (like unlock codes) how to circumvent access controls

4. To make it a personal project to analyze the similarities and differences of e-book readers, including their firmwares -- not illegal

5. To apply a modified firmware or to follow the instruction how to apply the firmware from device A onto device B, for personal use -- maybe illegal, depending on where you live, something the user has to figure out for himself.

I think you're pretty much correct on this.

I'd add that the modification - if you have the skills to modify the code, is merely removing a check - in the update_kernel file - of whether the target device already has a copy of Boo Reader in it's firmware. That's it. Obviously, the Orsio, Explay, EB-100 and STAReBOOK do not have this as this is a Bookeen-specific application. There are message strings verifying the start of Bookeen-developed drivers embedded in the EB-100 firmware and which display as those drivers are loaded. Still, for anyone who does not desire to gain this level of expertise, far better to just go buy a Cybook Gen3.

However, I must point out that study of the EB-100 firmware has conclusively demonstrated that there are device drivers in the EB-100 OS that were developed by Bookeen, and that the kernel, vivi bootloader and root files are identical between the Version 1.0 Bookeen firmware and the EB-100 firmware. Only the boot splash screen image and the reader applications are different.

Clearly, as the EB series migrates to WinCE and Bookeen adds newer versions of its firmware, this WILL change. So anyone who rushes out and buys the EB-2xx and EB-3xx series will find they may well NOT be able to apply this modification. I'm pretty sure this is a short-term phenomenon.

[delphidb96]

Given that there's so little change between the current version of the EB-100 and the Gen3, I'd think it would behoove Bookeen to see if they could *also* offer a version of Boo Reader to the owners of these other devices. Maybe a $79.95 'firmware update' which puts Boo Reader on the STAReBOOK, Explay, Orsio and EB-100??? (I would imagine the older non-vizplex models might require specific modifications to the kernel, but the EB-100 wouldn't.) Bookeen could even choose to license Boo Reader to these companies.

It is my opinion that being forward-thinking in this manner would cause such 'brand loyalty' in the current owners of these other devices that when it came time they decided to upgrade to a new platform, they'd remember this 'goodwill' and choose the latest Cybook model over, say, a Kindle or Astak. It's worked in other industries - but maybe I'm just a naive idiot.

Further,

I'd like to point out that the proliferation of non-interchangeable formats between Sony, Amazon, Bookeen and the like is a major force behind the development of OpenInkpot.

Clearly, porting Boo Reader to a Sony, Hanlin or a Kindle would be a non-trivial exercise, but it might not be so for the Netronix family of devices. And it's like choosing between MS-DOS/Windows and Apple OS. You can buy any of "these" computers, or you can limit yourself to *this* computer.

Derek