01-27-2013, 06:31 PM | #16 |
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Yes, he died as a result of a mid-air collision over Lincolnshire during World War II. He was only 19 yrs old. Apparently a trainer from Cranwell and his plane collided so his death was accidental rather than in combat like you would expect in war. He died on December 11, 1941 just a few days after Pearl Harbor.
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01-27-2013, 07:05 PM | #17 |
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They say that in the army
the coffee's mighty fine It's good for cuts and bruises and tastes like iodine Oh, I don't want no more of army life, gee mom, I want to go home. ... Disillusionment with the glory of war seems to be as timeless as the feeling that precedes it. We are born suckers, as a whole. I love that some part of our culture goes towards presenting that message, but despondent at how little effect it has. We are not the rational beings we think we are. |
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01-27-2013, 10:45 PM | #18 |
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The real disillusionment with war came about with the invention of photography. Prior to that people who weren't there couldn't really see what the men who fought saw. And about that same time advances were made in embalming so that rather than being buried on the field where they fell they might have a chance of being returned home for burial. It's hard to see the 'glory of war' when you can see the human cost in vivid images. I watched a documentary about Universal pictures and Lon Chaney the other night where some people pointed out that Chaney was really playing disabled war vets who due to advances in medicine had survived wounds that would at one time have been fatal.
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01-28-2013, 08:24 AM | #19 | |
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Here's one which deals with an airman in WW1 which perhaps reflects that sense of futility we associate with "The Great War". An Irish Airman Foresees His Death by William Butler Yeats I know that I shall meet my fate Somewhere among the clouds above; Those that I fight I do not hate Those that I guard I do not love; My country is Kiltartan Cross, My countrymen Kiltartan's poor, No likely end could bring them loss Or leave them happier than before. Nor law, nor duty bade me fight, Nor public men, nor cheering crowds, A lonely impulse of delight Drove to this tumult in the clouds; I balanced all, brought all to mind, The years to come seemed waste of breath, A waste of breath the years behind In balance with this life, this death. All Poetry gives the following background to the poem: "The Irish airman in this poem is Major Robert Gregory (1881-1918), only child of Yeats’s friend Lady Augusta Gregory. He was killed on the Italian front. In elegizing him, Yeats focuses on the “lonely impulse of delight” that drove him to enlist in the British Royal Flying Corps and distinguishes his heroic solitude from patriotic duty and other common motivations." Last edited by fantasyfan; 01-28-2013 at 08:30 AM. |
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01-28-2013, 05:08 PM | #20 |
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I didn't know that poem - thanks for putting it up for us, fantasy fan.
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02-07-2013, 03:27 PM | #21 |
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I got the Delphi Complete works of Wilfred Owen for Kindle--a wonderful buy. While reading the introduction, I came across more material about the friendship of Sassoon and Owen. Owen regarded the older poet as his mentor and the person who caused the dramatic shift in his portrayal of war. Many of the manuscripts of Owen have comments and suggestions by Sassoon. Further it was Sassoon who first brought out an edition of his friend's poetry--available in Project Gutenberg.
When Sassoon learned that Owen felt it his duty to return to the Front, he became furious and even threatened to stab Owen in the leg to prevent this happening. The result was that Owen left for the Front secretly--and died only a week before the Armistice. |
02-07-2013, 09:48 PM | #22 |
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And I seem to remember from reading Harold Owen's memoir of his brother, that the telegram advising Wilfred's death was delivered to his parents at noon on 11 November.
How cruel is that, when they would have been so relieved to think their sons were both safe. |
02-10-2013, 09:30 AM | #23 | |||||
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I'll quote and respond first, and then try to find something interesting left to say of my own!
Quote:
"I didn't raise my boy to be a soldier, I brought him up to be my pride and joy. Who dares to place a musket on his shoulder, To shoot some other mother's darling boy?" But when the US entered the way in 1917, the lyricist followed up with another ditty: "It’s time for ev’ry boy to be a soldier To put his strength and courage to the test It's time to place a musket on his shoulder And wrap the Stars and Stripes around his breast" Sigh. Quote:
Quote:
I also wonder if Sassoon's struggles with his homosexuality contributed to the tinge of bitterness; certainly the death of a man he loved which is referenced in his poem to Robert Graves is part of it. Just as an aside, I think even if I didn't know he was gay I'd be able to infer it from his poems. References to wives at home seem perfunctory; it's the relationships with other men that engage his emotions. This was true of all the servicemen to an extent, not only did shared experiences (which were hidden from those at home) bind them, it was also an age that admitted closer, quasi-romantic attachments to other men (especially for those who had been to public school). However, with Sassoon it seems like more than lingering schoolboy emotions. Owen presumably also was gay, we don't know how much angst it caused him as his family destroyed all his personal papers relating to his sexuality. Quote:
"From my mother's sleep I fell into the State, And I hunched in its belly till my wet fur froze. Six miles from earth, loosed from its dream of life, I woke to black flak and the nightmare fighters. When I died they washed me out of the turret with a hose. " Quote:
So many wrenching poems have been quoted already that I'm going to limit myself to one, "Before the Battle": "MUSIC of whispering trees Hushed by a broad-winged breeze Where shaken water gleams; And evening radiance falling With reedy bird-notes calling. O bear me safe through dark, you low-voiced streams. I have no need to pray That fear may pass away; I scorn the growl and rumble of the fight That summons me from cool Silence of marsh and pool And yellow lilies is landed in light O river of stars and shadows, lead me through the night. June 25th, 1916." Solidly in the pastoral tradition, but the date tells it all. His evocation of country quiet was written during the week-long, 24-hour a day bombardment of the German position before the start of the Battle of the Somme; the noise could be heard as far away as London. Knowing that, to me it reads less of the standard glory and why we're doing this and more of a man hanging on with his last nerve. |
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02-11-2013, 01:32 AM | #24 |
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Terrific post, issybird - thank you for your insights, especially on the Sassoon poem you quoted.
I hadn't come across the WW2 poem you quote, and agree with you on its rawness and truth about the whole brutal business of war. John Magee was being beautiful and lyrical, but of course he died in a training accident and I think (but am not sure) never experienced the horrors of battle. |
02-11-2013, 07:47 AM | #25 |
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Issybird, that is such a very insightful post which certainly enhances my understanding and appreciation of Sassoon's poetry. I've never really noticed Sassoon's roots in the pastoral which you so effectively demonstrate.
I do sometimes wonder if Brooke had lived to experience the same horrors as Sassoon and Owen whether he would have shared their dark vision. Last edited by fantasyfan; 02-11-2013 at 08:31 AM. |
02-11-2013, 01:59 PM | #26 |
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couldn't have put it better - great post Issybird!
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02-11-2013, 06:12 PM | #27 |
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P'shaw, you lovely people. I was late and only had to respond to such very insightful posts; everyone else had done all the heavy lifting. Thank you, very much, for your kind words.
I'll comment on a personal level that it's less usual for an American to be taken by the Great War; our Civil War and the Second World War seem to have captured more of my countrymen's imaginations, probably becaue WWI didn't exact the same toll, physical and emotional, as it did on the European and ANZAC and other combatants. But the Great War grabbed me and hasn't let go. And next year will be the centennary! It seems so close, in comparison to our Civil War, say, which was the same hundred years before my childhood and seemed like ancient history when I was growing up. Excuse my ramblings, please! |
02-14-2013, 10:29 AM | #28 | |
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03-19-2013, 09:12 PM | #29 |
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This is all a bit after the event, as it were, but I thought you might be interested even so.
I have just listened to a very interesting discussion about Siegfried Sassoon from a BBC podcast. It was first broadcast on 7 June 2007 and you will find it in this collection. http://www.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/series/iotc Beware though - there are some terrifically interesting-sounding programmes in here (including one each on the Odyssey and the Aeneid for those who took part in those discussions). I may have to give up sleep in order to find the time to listen to everything that I would like to hear! |
03-20-2013, 10:52 AM | #30 | |
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