line-height confusion

[Comfy.n]

Originally Posted by DNSB

Tried that once & it took me hours to get down from the ceiling. Never again!

Originally Posted by foosion

A nice way to see the list is to execute in Python

import this

Of course, the best import to execute in Python is

import antigravity

Both imports are entertaining although I despise myself for taking too much time trying to find out the truth about who's the dutch in 'Although that way may not be obvious at first unless you're Dutch.'

https://softwareengineering.stackexc...ce-to-dijkstra

[foosion]

Originally Posted by DNSB

Tried that once & it took me hours to get down from the ceiling. Never again!

Compare Mary Poppins' Uncle Albert.

Originally Posted by Comfy.n

Both imports are entertaining although I despise myself for taking too much time trying to find out the truth about who's the dutch in 'Although that way may not be obvious at first unless you're Dutch.'

https://softwareengineering.stackexc...ce-to-dijkstra

Interesting. I always assumed it was Guido, since he created Python, although I never checked.

[Comfy.n]

Actually there's a confirmation by Tim Peters himself (author of the Zen statements) in that same answer. It was about Guido, but I had to confirm, grr.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by foosion

For today's crappy code, a book with style="whatever" littered throughout the text. If every h2 is <h2 style="text-align: center";>, which not just put that in the CSS?? Similarly for many other tags.

Probably a rhetorical question.

I've seen code such as <p class="para" style="text-align: 0%;">. And there is a CSS file.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by foosion

One issue with <p> is distinguishing paragraphs with a text-indent and those without. Some CSS defines <p> with a text-indent and then has a class="noindent", typically for the first paragraph of a section, while others define <p> without an indent, then add a class="indent" for every paragraph other than the first.

Is one of these more canonical?

I prefer <p> for the majority of paragraphs and <p class="someclass"> when I want to deviate from the majority of paragraph styles. And I do prefer to have the indent in p in the CSS.

One thing that means doing is putting a text-indent: 0; in most/all classes that have a text-align: center; because most eBooks do not put an indent with p.

[Jellby]

Depending on how complex the book is, you may get away using only <p> and styling p and h1+p (or whatever h level you use for chapter headings).

I'd use some class name other than "noindent", something like "first" and/or "continued". Just to maintain the distinction between semantics and styling. Those paragraphs are unindented because they have some feature, not because I randomly decided to disable indent for them. If some day I want to also indent the first paragraph in a chapter (as is done in other language traditions, by the way), I won't feel embarrassed by adding some indent to the "noindent" class.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Jellby

Depending on how complex the book is, you may get away using only <p> and styling p and h1+p (or whatever h level you use for chapter headings).

I'd use some class name other than "noindent", something like "first" and/or "continued". Just to maintain the distinction between semantics and styling. Those paragraphs are unindented because they have some feature, not because I randomly decided to disable indent for them. If some day I want to also indent the first paragraph in a chapter (as is done in other language traditions, by the way), I won't feel embarrassed by adding some indent to the "noindent" class.

I do use an <hr/> for the section breaks. So the next <p> is styled for no indent with hr + p.

I probably should also do an h2 + p for no indent as I mostly use <h2> for the chapter header.

[Turtle91]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

I do use an <hr/> for the section breaks. So the next <p> is styled for no indent with hr + p.

Originally Posted by JSWolf

I probably should also do an h2 + p for no indent as I mostly use <h2> for the chapter header.

I agree with your first example because there's really no definition of the-first-paragraph-that-follows-a-section-break... but I would actually define the first paragraph in the chapter as <p class="first"> or <p class="CO"> (chapter opener) instead.

<h2>Chapter Title</h2>
<p class="first">Yadda yadda yadda.</p>

Then you can apply whatever styles you want to that particular class, not just no-indent. You can even easily set the css to do any number of things depending on your creativity and the capabilities of your device.

p.first {}
p.first::first-letter {}
p.first::first-line {}
...
...
...

You can even set that css to be responsive and compatible with all kinds of different devices/apps based on screen size, @media, @supports, backwards compatibility for ePub2, as well as all the fun/creative things that are possible JUST because you semantically defined the first paragraph.

And here is the part that you like best, Jon. You can leave it a plane, vanilla no-indent while still having it set semantically. It's a win-win!!

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Turtle91

I agree with your first example because there's really no definition of the-first-paragraph-that-follows-a-section-break... but I would actually define the first paragraph in the chapter as <p class="first"> or <p class="CO"> (chapter opener) instead.

<h2>Chapter Title</h2>
<p class="first">Yadda yadda yadda.</p>

Then you can apply whatever styles you want to that particular class, not just no-indent. You can even easily set the css to do any number of things depending on your creativity and the capabilities of your device.

p.first {}
p.first::first-letter {}
p.first::first-line {}
...
...
...

You can even set that css to be responsive and compatible with all kinds of different devices/apps based on screen size, @media, @supports, backwards compatibility for ePub2, as well as all the fun/creative things that are possible JUST because you semantically defined the first paragraph.

And here is the part that you like best, Jon. You can leave it a plane, vanilla no-indent while still having it set semantically. It's a win-win!!

I don't need a class as I can style h2 + p as needed.

Personally, I prefer not to use first. I don't like dropcaps or large first letter or smallcaps, etc. I just like normal text unless there's a reason for a style.

[Turtle91]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Personally, I prefer not to use first. I don't like dropcaps or large first letter or smallcaps, etc. I just like normal text unless there's a reason for a style.

You certainly can do it that way, and that is what I was referring to when I mentioned you can be as creative or plain/vanilla as you want.

Originally Posted by JSWolf

I don't need a class as I can style h2 + p as needed.

Yes, you can do it this way as well, but it makes the css a bit more unruly. Which do you think is cleaner?

h2 + p  {}
h2 + p::first-letter {}
h2 + p::first-line {}

-OR-

p.first  {}
p.first::first-letter {}
p.first::first-line {}

Also, you need to consider that there are a lot of books out there that have something inserted between the chapter head and the first paragraph, so a simple h2 + p doesn't work. Whereas, if you get in the habit of semantically labeling the first paragraph, your styling of choice will be appropriately rendered regardless of any intervening elements. Here are a couple of examples:







Quiz Time!
Can you name the Book/Author from the images above? (no cheating)

Spoiler:

image 1: The Long Earth by Terry Pratchett and Stephen Baxter

image 2: The Dragon Reborn by Robert Jordan

image 3: Dune by Frank Herbert

[foosion]

Originally Posted by Turtle91

Quiz Time!
Can you name the Book/Author from the images above? (no cheating)

Spoiler:

image 1: The Long Earth by Terry Pratchett and Stephen Baxter

image 2: The Dragon Reborn by Robert Jordan

image 3: Dune by Frank Herbert

I don't remember ever seeing 1 & 2, let alone reading them, so no. I have heard of two of the three authors.

3: I've read that enough times to identify immediately.

[DNSB]

I've spoilered my reply since I included book titles.

Spoiler:

I recognize 1 from The Long Earth by Terry Pratchett and Stephen Baxter
3 from Dune by Frank Herbert
but other than saying 2 is by Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time series, no idea as to book title.

[theducks]

Originally Posted by foosion

For today's crappy code, a book with style="whatever" littered throughout the text. If every h2 is <h2 style="text-align: center";>, which not just put that in the CSS?? Similarly for many other tags.

Probably a rhetorical question.

Old Mobi had no CSS. Center was done by multiple Blockquotes

A centered H2 is likely done because of bad devices (IIRC H# were centered by default, but not all got the memo)

I believe using H# is just a convention, not a rule for automated TOC generation.

[RbnJrg]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

I don't need a class as I can style h2 + p as needed.

Personally, I prefer not to use first. I don't like dropcaps or large first letter or smallcaps, etc. I just like normal text unless there's a reason for a style.

Lol

Then it must give you a stomach ache every time you see layouts like the following:



The screenshots are from my epub2 version of "The Thousand Night and a Night" (in spanish) under KOReader. Under epub3 looks practically the same, but the footnotes are showed in a popup window (on an epub3 ereaders devices/apps).

Rejecting decorations in an e-book "a priori" and without further reason is prejudice on your part.